View source for Howling:Unresolved plot cookies - Series 7 part 2

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As the new half series approaches, it might be fun to note some things which are or seem unresolved then explore the clues. I've started us out with 7, add more if you have them. --[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

== Lists ==
=== Unresolved major plot cookies ===
* [[#Clara Oswin Oswald|Who]] is [[Clara Oswin Oswald]] and why has the Doctor encountered two versions of her that died? (Previous speculation - [[Howling:A collection of theories and questions regarding AotD and Oswin]])
* [[#The question|What]] is [[The Question]]? It is really the Doctor's name? How is that a dark secret?

=== Other unresolved cookies ===
* [[#Why did the silence try to make the doctor angry|Why]] exactly were [[The Silence]] trying to make the Doctor angry? If they weren't, why have Amy tell him about the pregnancy?
* Is [[Silence in the Library (TV story)|Silence in the Library]] related to the Silence story arc? Is it through River or CAL?
* Is River at [[Trenzalore]]? Is that how she finds out what she says to the Doctor in [[Silence in the Library (TV story)|Silence in the Library]]?
* If the [[Dalek]]s were brought back by the [[Big Bang Two]], who else might have been?
* [[#The duck pond|Why]] was it called a [[duck]] pond when it didn't have any ducks?
* [[#79B Aickman Road|Hey]], what about [[79B Aickman Road]]? Why do the Silence seem to be trying to make their own Time Machine and why did it want to try every human in the world once they disappeared?
* [[#Kidnapping Amy|When]] exactly was Amy kidnapped? 

== Discussion ==
=== Clara Oswin Oswald ===
She's the Red Riding Hood to Rose's Bad Wolf. She's got a Time Lord subconscious trying to make herself known. She's been spread throughout time as the result of story we haven't seen yet. She's Jenny, regenerated. She's CAL hacking herself back into reality. She's been splintered so as to live her life in numerous timelines. She's an extreme example of [[Spatial genetic multiplicity]].

"Remember me, for we shall meet again" and [[23 November]]...--[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
=== The question ===
As I've mentioned on it's talk page, I think a particular head writer is playing silly with us on this. We're meant to think it's merely the Doctor's name, but to be so hidden, it really can't be merely. Also, why was [[River Song]] so sad - why did she feel the need to apologise to him - when she was saying it to him in [[The Library]]?
=== Why did the silence try to make the doctor angry ===
One of the things that can be pretty clear to us but not to the Doctor in [[The Impossible Astronaut (TV story)|The Impossible Astronaut]] is that at least the Silent in the bathroom was trying to get him both involved and angry. There doesn't seem to be another rational reason to hypnotise Amy into telling him about the pregnancy. What possible motive could there be for this? I mean, sure, anger makes him make mistakes... But they completely tipped their hand for what doesn't seem to be a very good reason.--[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

=== The duck pond ===
This one is my favorite. Are we really and truly done with the [[Cracks in Time]] story? Is the Doctor overlooking things? Was this just Amy's storyline and now it's over? Or will we see it come back, like the [[Bad Wolf meme|Big Bad Wolf]]?

I have to admit that my main thought as I watched through series 5 and 6 was that [[Amy Pond]] seemed more like an imaginary friend to the Doctor than the other way around. The duck pond is a symbol of this theory to me.--[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:00, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

=== General Discussion ===
Hmm, some interesting questions raised.  Who is Clara is going to be one of the main ones, and thinking about the timing, I think it might have something to do with who the Doctor is, because with the Clara mystery being introduced right now after the whole "Doctor who?" thing, and with the show now leading up to the anniversary, I can't help but think these two points are somehow connected.  Which brings me to "Doctor who?".  I think that, as suggested elsewhere in old Howling threads, that it's going to be much more than just his name.  It is going to have something to do with who he is as a person.  OH, and he's going to whisper his name into River's ear, but the audience won't hear because a) that would destroy a lot of the feel of the character and more importantly b) they could never come up with a name which satisfies fans' expectations.  And on the subject of the Big Bang 2, I think the more important question is who blew up the TARDIS and why?  Most people seem to think the Silence did it, but how and why? I really don't have any opinions currently on the other questions.  [[User:Imamadmad|Imamadmad]] ([[User talk:Imamadmad|Contact me]]) 06:23, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The timing does suggest that who (& what) Clara is has something important to do with the "Doctor Who?" question. As far as the Silence blowing up the TARDIS is concerned, it seems to me that what happened then (destruction of the universe) looks a lot like what the Silence is trying to prevent & that we may eventually discover that it was done by whoever is the real enemy of the Silence. 

The duck pond with no ducks: As far as I know, the absence of ducks was intended to be because the ducks had been swallowed by a crack & we were meant to see that the ducks had been restored in ''The Big Bang'' but they didn't get round to filming that. Since it wasn't actually shown, they '''could''' still change the significance of the duckless pond, though that seems unlikely now that Amy has gone. --[[Special:Contributions/89.242.64.79|89.242.64.79]]<sup>[[User talk:89.242.64.79#top|talk to me]]</sup> 11:12, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

The ducks kind of remind me of the bees, you know. For me, it's a symbol of how the resolution of the Cracks storyline just seemed WAY too easy on the Doctor. In fact, because of "Silence, and the end of all things," I'd say we know for sure that the arc of the cracks hasn't been resolved. :)

As for the Question, I have thoughts running around in my head: first, whatever the secret is, it is the reason why he ran from the Untempered Schism when he was eight. Second, we know that choosing a new name is some sort of Time Lord custom. Perhaps it's elaborate enough that knowledge of your prior name is wiped from the universe, and after initiation, he realised he had a secret to protect. so, somehow, he incorporate a secret - possibly even one that didn't belong there - into his name, adopting a new name before performing whatever Time Lord ritual hides his name and replaces it in the heart and minds of everything. Third, I don't think they'll hide the name by just not having us hear it, as they've done that at least twice with River. Fourth, whatever happens, at least River will hear it, and I think we'll find that the Tenth was incorrect in some respect when he said that he could only say it once... Of course, the Eleventh did figure out the question before he came up with the plan to marry River. --[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:27, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the blowing up of the tardis I've read a theory that i agree with. So we know the Silence have been trying to kill the doctor so he doesn't reach Trenzalore. The theory is that it was one of the Silence's attempt to kill the doctor. First they tried raising River Song to kill him and that failed so then they blew up his tardis. It's most likely the attempts occurred in this order because the astronaut suit plan resulted in the creation of River Song as we know her. However it still doesn't explain how they blew it up, or why it was drawn to that specific date.--[[User:Whovian11|Whovian11]] [[User talk:Whovian11|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:39, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

If it was the Silence that blew up the TARDIS, they very nearly brought about the very thing (destruction of the universe) that they seem to be trying to prevent. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been them. It just means that, if it was, they got it wrong. If, on the other hand, the Silence were behind the Alliance, trying to stop the TARDIS being blown up, they still got it wrong. 

One possibility that occurred to me a while ago is that, because the Silents (the aliens) find it so easy to manipulate people & to get others to do their work for them, they don't need to be very intelligent & they've taken a firm hold of the wrong end of the stick. It might not be the Doctor who's the real danger to them; it might be their own misconceived efforts to kill him. The idea of someone's attempts to escape their fate bringing about that fate is an old one. A well known story that uses this plot is "The Appointment in Samarra" (the Somerset Maugham version is [http://www.k-state.edu/english/baker/english320/Maugham-AS.htm here] & has the virtue of being very short). The Alliance, in ''The Pandorica Opens'', made exactly that mistake. The Silence might be making it, too, especially as they seem to prefer complicated ways of doing things & don't follow the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid! (I was 89 earlier.) --[[Special:Contributions/2.101.60.190|2.101.60.190]]<sup>[[User talk:2.101.60.190#top|talk to me]]</sup> 17:32, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
:: As for them causing their own ultimate downfall, I'm counting on it. :) If it weren't for the fact that the Silent in the bathroom killed Joy, I would think that there was more than one faction. I also think it's a mistake to assume that they '''don't''' want to destroy the Universe. I also think it's safe to say that the Doctor knows something significant about them, now, as he knows what they're afraid of him exposing... Speaking of which, the presence dot a group trying to stop him means that there is likely going to be a group that is TRYING to get the Doctor to Trenzalore to expose the secret, whatever it is. --[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:33, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

=== 79B Aickman Road ===
* Hey, what about [[79B Aickman Road]]? Why do the Silence seem to be trying to make their own Time Machine and why did it want to try every human in the world once they disappeared?

TOTALLY forgot this one, but it's a big one, isn't it? When you remember it, well... Not only do they attempt to destroy the TARDIS and replace it with a less sophisticated Time Machine, they create their own "Time Lord" (and bespoke psychopath that would kill the Doctor for them) to drive it. Why? Is it solely to be able to follow the Doctor? They seem to have other ways of travelling in time, from how they move River around, or do they only have this because they have River?

And, it's abandoned at Craig's flat, the autopilot doesn't have any suitable pilots to try, but the sum total of human population. If it's a time ship for the Silence race - and it seems to be - it should be able to detect them, but there are none. Does the Doctor eventually happen to them? Did he wipe them all out? 

Of course, then one with the species ability shows up at Silencio... How? Which brings me to... --[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:27, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

=== Kidnapping Amy ===
Even though Amy's gone, I think they'll still clear up a few questions regarding her time with the Doctor. I think the Doctor was wrong about when Amy was taken, and we have enough information to realise it. Closely related to why they were trying to make the Doctor angry is how they went about doing it - namely, they waited until she was back in 1969, the lured her to the bathroom to plant the suggestion in her head. If they took her to [[Demons Run]] before this, why bother? Why not just show up there in person and hypnotise her there? If you know she'd coming to your stronghold, why bother to kidnap her from a time and place where there are few of you and you have to work around her husband? Why not kidnap her while she's on the run for three months, alone, in your stronghold. It's clear she was a Ganger before the recorder was implanted - in the orphanage she has a window, and the Flesh falls apart there, leaving her cartilage bonded recorder on the floor. (She's reconstituted from Flesh in the spaceship in Florida.) But in my opinion it's by no means clear that she was already a Ganger in the Impossible Astronaut.

A viable alternate theory is that there are multiple factions in the Silent species, however, the one she met in the bathroom was not a nice guy by any means, right?--[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:27, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
=== More Discussion ===
What I don't get is how, if the Doctor planted the suggestion from the injured Silent in 1969 that they be killed on sight, how could there be Silents to abduct River in the 51st century and force her into that space suit? It was said that they, like the Silurian, had existed on the Earth for eons. Is there another home planet?

I also disagree that the Silence first attempted to kill the Doctor via the lake shooting and later through the TARDIS explosion. In the Doctor's timeline that we see on the show, Big Bang 2 happens BEFORE Lake Silencio. So, their first attempt was to blow up the TARDIS, presumably, with him on it, but they failed. Or, did the TARDIS in fact explode? I've seen some fans say that it is physically impossible for the TARDIS to explode into small bits. [[Special:Contributions/69.125.134.86|69.125.134.86]]<sup>[[User talk:69.125.134.86#top|talk to me]]</sup> 17:00, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

69: We know it's the Doctor's timeline that we see. That's the point. In '''the Silence's''' timeline, it's entirely possible that Lake Silencio was before the TARDIS explosion. 

You've "seen some fans say that it is physically impossible for the TARDIS to explode into small bits": I've seen fans say all kinds of things, including a large quantity of complete nonsense. Where did these particular fans get their expertise in Time Lord technology?

As for what you "don't get": If you watch the episodes, you'll notice that, in the 51st century, the Silents act almost entirely through their servants (such as Kovarian) &, by then, they've had '''three thousand years''' to find ways of continuing to operate, despite what the Doctor did. That's plenty of time to find workarounds. 

Also, the Silents claimed to have been on Earth "since fire and the wheel" but they were clearly established to have come here from elsewhere, so their survival on other planets (not necessarily just their home planet) is entirely possible. --[[Special:Contributions/89.240.248.227|89.240.248.227]]<sup>[[User talk:89.240.248.227#top|talk to me]]</sup> 01:22, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

: The only two latter-day occurrences of physical presence of the Silents after 1969 are when Kovarian comes for River, and the single Silent observer at Lake Silencio. Note that when 79B happens, the timeship computer shows a human population to check that doesn't seem to include Silent. I think we have to assume that at some point, they had the timeship operational, whether they needed River to run it or what.

: I think some of the weirdness we're seeing is because the Silence have been depredated by future actions of the Doctor, perpetuating the "endless, bitter war" that Kovarian mentions. Of course, we've seen some of it already - I mean, the Doctor was pretty nasty to a representative the Church - who didn't survive - at the Byzantium, and 100 years later they're a major part of the alliance coming after him? Not really surprising, if you think about it.--[[User:ComicBookGoddess|ComicBookGoddess]] [[User talk:ComicBookGoddess|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:28, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you, ComicBookGoddess, thanks for your insight. It was very helpful.

89: Your argument might hold more weight if your attitude was less patronizing. It just makes me tune out anything you have to say.

63.143.228.74: Since that was a personal attack, I can understand why you preferred not to sign it. --[[Special:Contributions/89.241.75.49|89.241.75.49]]<sup>[[User talk:89.241.75.49#top|talk to me]]</sup> 09:09, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

89: Personal yes, but your behavior was patronizing. Is it attack if it is true?

:: Interesting to see how few of these questions were resolved. Maybe we are focusing on the wrong questions? [[User:Badwolff|Badwolff]] [[User talk:Badwolff|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:16, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

For there to be a Prophecy, there has to be a prophet. Who created the prophecy and perhaps manipulated the Silence into their crusade against the Doctor? Who convinced the Silence, and the Church of both the veracity of the Prophecy, and how it relates to the Doctor?
Prisoner Zero speaks not only of the cracks, but of the Silence. How does he know about them?
The Vampires of Venice left their homeworld, fleeing the Silence. How did they know about them?
If, in the Name of the Doctor, the Doctor can "always" see and hear Ghost River from the Library, does that suggest that the explosion of the Tardis (with River in it) has some thing to do with the Library/Ghost River? {Looks like this was posted by Phil Stone}