Howling:Synopsis of ep 12 / 13

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You know the thingy from Radio Times...

There was a goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it – one day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.

and

A message on the oldest cliff-face in the universe, a puzzle box opening from the inside and a love that lasts thousands of years...

The fates are drawing close around the TARDIS - is this the day the Doctor falls?

Is it just me, this goblin etc refers to the Doctor himself, the puzzle box is the TARDIS, the cliff message is another message from River to summon the Doctor.

And the Doctor tells River his name at the opening of the Pandorica to prove he actually has a name (or if my other idea posted on 'On the other hand?' thread is correct, she knew it anyway) ...

Any thoughts ? 86.26.137.154 08:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

If that's the Doctor, he sounds like bloody Satan. Oh, and he's not terrible and he does have a name - two names, to be exact. One nikname, and one real. Delton Menace 17:24, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you think about it, the Doctor _is_ terrible. He's the thing the monsters are scared of. He's the Oncoming Storm, the Destroyer of Worlds, the greatest enemy any evil (even his own people!) will ever have to face. He's a trickster (Remembrance of the Daleks, Silver Nemesis, ...), and a warrior (at the front lines of the LGTW, the equivalent of an entire army). He may be the most feared being in the cosmos--vast armies have fled from battle just hearing his name. Nothing can stop him, nothing can hold him ("There's one thing you never put in a trap..."). You can reason with him, but only if he's wrong, and he rarely is. And he's destroyed Skaro and Gallifrey, and torn down ancient social and political systems (if they were wrong).

However, all that being said, I don't think the goblin will be the Doctor, or that River will suspect him of it.

If we were talking about the Dalek version of the series (which I'm sure is post-watershed), that would be a different story....

As for the message on the oldest cliff face in history, isn't that the far side of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains in the land of Sevorbeupstry on the planet of Preliumtarn, which orbits the star Zarss, which is located in the Grey Binding Fiefdoms of Saxaquine? So the message will be 30-foot-high fiery letters reading "We apologise for the inconvenience." All the Hitchhikers references this season aren't just an homage to one of Moffat's favorite writers in the show's history, they're one of the 5 things to look for.

OK, if that last one is true, I'll eat my hat, and everyone else's.... But the rest of it was serious. --Falcotron 06:05, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Glad you appreciate my point Falcotron, you explained it very clearly, I should have put more explanation in my post for those who seem to need things spelled out for them if it goes against their own thoughts and ideas! Ok, the Doctor does have a real name, but no one knows it (except River), and 'the doctor' is a title not a name as has been mentioned and joked about etc, therefore he is 'nameless', so as Delton Menace seems so fond of saying ... End of.

(Love the hitchikers bit Falcotron, that would be soooo amusing!) 86.26.137.154 08:59, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

It still feels like clutching at straws, to be honest, it really does. The finally mysteriously starts making the Doctor out as this evil, demonic Time Lord when we know, from the finale, that the Doctor is his usual Doctor-y self. I doubt Steven Moffat would write that and be thinking, "This is how I view the Doctor." Plus, that description concerns the finale, and that Doctor is certainly not like that in the finale. Delton Menace 11:07, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for saving me the trouble of writing the hitchiker thing falcotron. RTD also put in hitchikers references e.g, the 10th doctor saving the world in a dressing gown. I think the Goblin refers to something we have yet to meet, not an already established character. Fan555 16:04, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

There were also occasional HHGTTG references in the classic series, starting with Douglas Adams himself (the Doctor reading Oolon Colluphid's book). But I think there has been significantly more of it this season than in the past, enough that the idea of it being a significant plot hint is just plausible enough to work as a joke (but no more than that).

Anyway, I agree that the big bad will likely be a brand new enemy. I think Moff wants to prove that you can have a great finale without making it about the Daleks, or the Daleks and the Cybermen, or the Master, or the Daleks with Davros, or the Master and the whole corrupt Time Lord Council. Partly because if you _can't_, if you have to go bigger and bigger each season forever, they're almost at the limit; the only thing left that's potentially a bigger baddie is the Black Guardian, and then the show is over. (Well, maybe you could have John Nathan-Turner the next season....) And partly because always bringing back the main classic baddies starts to feel like you're more interested in trying to turn a few casual viewers into hardcore fans than trying to entertain both all of the casual viewers and the hardcore fans. --Falcotron 01:43, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well. I wasn't far off the mark. The goblin etc was the Doctor and the message was from River. And apparantly lots of other people started posting about the goblin etc being the Doctor on the DS forum weeks after I initialy started this thread! Smug! 86.26.137.154 08:29, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't the Doctor turned into a goblin in the sound of drums?

To unsigned person above....no...not really...it's more just to show you what 900 year old people look like in general...how did their bone structure shrink is beyond me...but unless your point is that all our grandparents are turning into goblin if we don't legalize euthanasia...(forced euthanasia?)....Not to mention that the year never existed...

but it would have been kind of cool if RTD used that as the look of the humans inside the Toclafane...I mean having their reproduction systems no longer functioning and they somehow improved their body's immune systems and eliminating causes of natural death without delaying biological clocks...It just seems more human than a head...kind of odd for anyone to willingly chop off their own head and place it in a a stuffy orb forever...Not much better than cyber-conversion...222.166.181.98 10:10, June 28, 2010 (UTC)