Forum:The Man with the Rosette

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I'm going to create a page for "The Man with the Rosette", he was an incarnation of the Master alive after the Second War in Heaven and appeared in The Adventuress of Henrietta Street. The reason i created this topic thread was because i was unsure what to name the article, the book names the characters in script from as "The Man with the Rosette" but he could also be called "The Master (The Adventuress of Henrietta Street)" which is also a bit of a mouthful.

Ideas?

Revanvolatrelundar 19:51, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Well...it's implied he's the Master, but unless there's really suggestive proof I think Man with the Rosette would be the best bet.

I can't remember if there's something mentioned in The Book of the War about him / the Master that would give more proof towards suggesting that he's the Master. --Tangerineduel 15:52, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

He was seen in a vision by the Doctor and Marnal during the Gallifrey Chronicles where he got his beard back. Revanvolatrelundar 16:09, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure a beard is enough of an identifyer of the Master. But the article is good, interesting and informative! --Tangerineduel 13:17, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, the rosette guy was the whole reason for me to read the book in the first place. but on te subject of identifying him as the Master, AHistory claims that Lawrence Miles intended the character to be the Master, although it was never explicitly stated in the book.

As you've done, noted it in the behind the scenes section, but for in-universe stuff we need in-universe sourcing. Even with Henrietta Street we need to take into account the altered method of story telling the book takes. --Tangerineduel 15:37, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Take a read of this passage from the book and see what you think then:

DOCTOR: Have we met? I’m sorry, my memory isn’t what it was.
I shed most of it a long time ago.
THE MAN: Met? Oh, I’d say so. Believe it or not, we used to know
each other quite well.
DOCTOR [with recognition?]: Good grief.
THE MAN: Ah. Spoken like the man I used to know.
DOCTOR: You’ve lost that terrible beard, then.
THE MAN: But of course. I have whatever it is you lack. And vice
versa. Have you forgotten? Oh, I’m so sorry. You’ve forgotten
everything, haven’t you? [Irony?]
DOCTOR: You’re behind all this? No, of course you’re not. Not
your style at all.
THE MAN: Here, Doctor, I’m simply a guest. Thank you for the
invitation, by the way. Most touching. Admittedly, I would have
preferred something more personal. . .
DOCTOR: And would you mind telling me what that rosette’s
meant to be?
THE MAN: A sign of my allegiance to the great Whig cause. I’ve
become an exponent of democracy.
DOCTOR: Why does that not sound convincing?
THE MAN: My dear Doctor, I’m telling you the truth. I told you. I
have to <script type="text/javascript" src="/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Functions.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript"></script>offer the universe whatever you can’t. If you’ve decided to
take on the colours of your new sweetheart, then it’s up to me to
side with the Opposition. Perhaps one day you’ll consider destroying
the universe. Then I’ll be in the awkward position of saving
it.
DOCTOR: You don’t expect me to believe that, surely?
THE MAN: Your friend in red came closest to the truth. What does
she call you, again? Her ‘elemental champion’? Very perceptive of
her. There are only four of us left now, you know. Four of us in all
of the universe. We have certain standards to uphold.
DOCTOR: Then I suppose you’re going to say that you don’t want
to kill me.
THE MAN: It’s hardly the time for that any more, wouldn’t you
agree? While our kind still walked tall, we had the whole of space
and time as our battlefield. These days, I’m afraid our little duels
would be utterly meaningless. You’ve met Sabbath, of course.
DOCTOR: Yes. He reminds me of you. I think.
THE MAN: How interesting. He reminds me of you. Our replacement,
Doctor. The new breed. All our kind in one, and a mere
human being, too. We can hardly return to our old routines, with
his kind in charge. Can we?
DOCTOR: I’m sick. I’m helpless. You must know that.
THE MAN: I rather think that’s my point. Do your duty Doctor.
However tedious it may be. Save the universe. Become King of
Time. Go after that irritating black object in the sky. Whatever
you think is necessary. Once you’ve done that. . . well, perhaps
the universe will be ready for us again, who can say? Then we can
set about destroying each other properly. Otherwise, I’m afraid
this is hardly our arena any more.

Revanvolatrelundar 15:46, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

I give several marks for dedication to type that out. (I have by the way read Henrietta Street, all the EDAs in fact more than twice for all except The Domino Effect to The Gallfifrey Chronicles which I've read once)

...But...the article I think should stay named as it is, but it can say something along the lines of 'dialogue between the Doctor and the Man suggests they have a history; the Man stating...' and add a quote from somewhere here.

I don't think the article should be renamed "The Master (The Adventuress of Henrietta Street)". But if there's any further information out there that ties the Master to the Man or vice versa then that can be stated.

But looking at the dialogue and pretending not to know about the Master, what's learned from this exchange is the Man is of the same creed as the Doctor - a Time Lord and that they operated on opposing sides. Without supporting evidence it could be anyone. But it is suggestive of being the Doctor.

We also need to acknowledge that Henrietta Street isn't written in the conventional style, but in faux-historical text, so there may be liberties taken with what's described. --Tangerineduel 16:18, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ill admit that i didnt write that out but copied it from an ebook, kudos on the reading, i will get round to reading them all once eventually, they are super books. I agree the article name should stay as it is, and i will look for internet sources and things from the novels that can pin him down to being the Master. Revanvolatrelundar 16:26, October 27, 2010 (UTC)