Howling:Is River Song human?: Difference between revisions
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{{ | {{archive|The Howling archives}}<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->'''Occam's Razor '''- the reason that River Song knows the Doctor's true name, can drive the TARDIS, bounces through the timeline and has esoteric general knowledge of places/people is because she's not human - she could be a Time Lord or refugee from the time-locked Galifrey. Anyone care to discuss or refute?--''ReTardis'' | ||
<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->'''Occam's Razor '''- the reason that River Song knows the Doctor's true name, can drive the TARDIS, bounces through the timeline and has esoteric general knowledge of places/people is because she's not human - she could be a Time Lord or refugee from the time-locked Galifrey. Anyone care to discuss or refute?--''ReTardis'' | |||
River Song is specifically human plus time lord since she was conceived in the tardis while it was in the vortex this is why she can regenerate and this is stated in a good man goes to war. Do NOT listen to the rest of this paragraph these people got it completely wrong. | |||
River Song has always been a mysterious character but as we find out in A Good Man Goes to War and Let's Kill Hitler she is the daughter of Amy Pond and Rory Williams. She is taken as a baby to be used as a weapon BECAUSE she is half time lord supposedly the only thing that can kill the doctor. As Madame Kovarian describes her she is "hope" in the war against the doctor. | |||
As we see in a flashback Melody aka River appears as a toddler and she regenerates and then turns into Mels one of Amy's best friends. Also in Let's Kill Hitler, Hitler tries to shoot the teselecta but fails and accidentally shoots Mels who then regenerates turning into, finally, River Song, but as a child River was raised to kill the doctor so she kisses him but has poisonous lipstick on and the doctor starts to die. The Doctor unintentionally says River Song to her even though she doesn't know the name yet. At the end of the episode the Doctor whispers something into her ear about River Song and the dies. Melody asks who River Song is and the teselecta shows her. She takes all of her regeneration energy and uses it in one go, to save the Doctor, this is supposedly why she couldn't regenerate in Forest of the Dead. | |||
So yes River Song is definitely human plus time lord. So just ignore next few paragraphs because I have no idea what the heck these people are talking about. | |||
Right to kind of settle both arguments. Right now I think she may be neither Time-Lord or Human as nothing has really been confirmed and even though you Delton recall moffat and/or alex kingston refering to her as human this could mean anything inprevious stories they could be refering her to act human or look human doesn't neccesseeraly mean she is human and she may or may not be time lord because maybe the machine that killed her killed her to much for her regeneration kicked in like she said to the doctor about it burning up his hearts and him dying so we don't actually know if she is timelord or human. Time will tell and maybe we will get a result on saturday. -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 16:01, April 22, 2010 (UTC) | Right to kind of settle both arguments. Right now I think she may be neither Time-Lord or Human as nothing has really been confirmed and even though you Delton recall moffat and/or alex kingston refering to her as human this could mean anything inprevious stories they could be refering her to act human or look human doesn't neccesseeraly mean she is human and she may or may not be time lord because maybe the machine that killed her killed her to much for her regeneration kicked in like she said to the doctor about it burning up his hearts and him dying so we don't actually know if she is timelord or human. Time will tell and maybe we will get a result on saturday. -- [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 16:01, April 22, 2010 (UTC) | ||
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''Dude, River is NOT the Doctor's daughter, Amy is. No, but seriously, those theories are always wrong.'' In the same reading, I could have sworn Moffat refered to her as being the Doctor's wife, which is a very, very popular theroy. I think it went something life: "Most people assume River is the Doctor's wife, but she is more than just that." Eh, so it doesn't deny it, it sounds like he is saying she is. In an old Comic Con, Julie Gardner asked out loud if River was the Doctor's wife, and I think Moffat whispere the reply or something. That, or he didn't give a clear answer. [[User:Delton Menace|Delton Menace]] 01:22, April 23, 2010 (UTC) | ''Dude, River is NOT the Doctor's daughter, Amy is. No, but seriously, those theories are always wrong.'' In the same reading, I could have sworn Moffat refered to her as being the Doctor's wife, which is a very, very popular theroy. I think it went something life: "Most people assume River is the Doctor's wife, but she is more than just that." Eh, so it doesn't deny it, it sounds like he is saying she is. In an old Comic Con, Julie Gardner asked out loud if River was the Doctor's wife, and I think Moffat whispere the reply or something. That, or he didn't give a clear answer. [[User:Delton Menace|Delton Menace]] 01:22, April 23, 2010 (UTC) | ||
Alex Kingston definitively referred to River Song as being human a couple years ago. But what does that prove? It's possible that Moffat hadn't thought of making her anything but human 2 years ago, or that he had thought of it but hadn't decided, or even that he had decided but hadn't told her (so it wouldn't leak out, or so she wouldn't try to act "alien", or whatever). | |||
So, that information isn't all that useful. If she were to stay the same thing today, after having filmed this season, that would be a different story. Even better if Moffat referred to her as a human. But still, I think we'll know the answer eventually from inside the show, so anything until then is useless speculation (which is all in good fun, especially on The Howling, of course). --[[Special:Contributions/99.50.120.236|99.50.120.236]] 05:35, April 25, 2010 (UTC) | |||
Why can't River Song be Jenny? That would establish a strong link between her and the Doctor, assuming that she was a future companion. [[User:Drakefantastic|Drakefantastic]] 21:14, May 4, 2010 (UTC) | |||
Because it's a stupid, ridiculous, and very repetive theroy, no different than the Rani crap we get every year. And Doctor Who isn't about incest, either. River Song has a hinted sexual interest in the Doctor., and is implied to be his wife both off-screen and on-screen. Jenny is just a bialogical grown daughter from the 61st century, River is woman from the Doctor's future from the 51st century. End of. [[User:Delton Menace|Delton Menace]] 01:10, May 5, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:I think that's going a little _too_ far. It's not impossible--I'm sure if Moffat decided to do that tomorrow, he could find a way to write it into the story (given what we've seen so far; episodes 12 and 13 might change that...). But it is still very unlikely, because I don't think Moffat would _want_ to write it into the story. | |||
:As for "Doctor Who isn't about incest"--well, yeah, but Doctor Who wasn't about romance, either--no hanky-panky in the TARDIS and all that--but RTD was able to change that and make it work. So, again, it's not impossible that Moffat could find a way to turn it into a classical Greek tragedy (or a soap opera or something) and make it work, it's just unlikely that he'd want to do so. If he wants to turn Doctor Who into Peter Pan, Oedipus or Elektra takes him pretty far away from his theme.... --[[User:Falcotron|Falcotron]] 05:39, May 6, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:I'm sure I won't be popular for suggesting this; however, I'm going to anyway... ROMANA, ANYONE?! | |||
:The time lords all died in TLGTW/The End of Time, Correct? No! Romana disappeared into E-Space during 4th doctor's tenure... | |||
:Discuss.[[User:RUMyMommy|RUMyMommy]] 17:49, May 6, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:Also, links in with Pandora/ Pondorica, see: | |||
:[[Pandora]] | |||
--[[User:RUMyMommy|RUMyMommy]] 18:16, May 6, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::Well, Romana was brought back from E-Space in the spinoff media and became President of Gallifrey. As RTD himself pointed out, even if you ignore the licensed novels and audios, the BBC webcast version of Shada had Lady President Romana with the Eighth Doctor. As far as he's concerned, Romana was the President who was replaced by Rassilon. | |||
::However, none of that actually happened on screen in the show, so if Moff wants to go with a strict TV-or-nothing continuity, he could bring Romana back. (He could even have Paul Cornell remake his novel Goth Opera with 11 instead of 5, just like he did with Human Nature.) | |||
::Pandora, on the other hand, doesn't even exist other than in the spinoff continuity; if you bring her back, you pretty much have to accept that Romana came back and was President during the LGTW, which means she's dead. | |||
::Also, even if Moff wanted to bring Romana back, why turn River into her? River and Romana are radically different characters, and both great characters, so why throw away one for no reason when you can have them both? In fact, they'd be even better interacting together, especially if Moffat is the writer (assuming here that Romana is at least a maybe-ex-girlfriend). --[[User:Falcotron|Falcotron]] 02:25, May 7, 2010 (UTC) | |||
Giys have you seen the pics?http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.malevolentia.com/riversong.png&imgrefurl=http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php%3Fp%3D40856083&usg=__z-fpjtf63LuVR5zAc2HJDqLZTbo=&h=330&w=311&sz=124&hl=en&start=0&sig2=q98553MqqpcnfUrVP92hyg&zoom=1&tbnid=yQCP8fFaUennQM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=120&ei=h4xJTe7GOIywhQe3kbirDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Domega%2Briver%2Bsong%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1362%26bih%3D553%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=117&vpy=53&dur=170&hovh=231&hovw=218&tx=92&ty=135&oei=h4xJTe7GOIywhQe3kbirDg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0 Looks like the sign of omega if you ask me! Omega disappeaqred, didn't die. He was called 'the greatest'' by many. River apparently killed 'one of the greatest men who ever lived'. Is she working for him maybe? Or is she him..... Or Romana I think. | |||
Latest revision as of 22:59, 26 December 2012
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
Occam's Razor - the reason that River Song knows the Doctor's true name, can drive the TARDIS, bounces through the timeline and has esoteric general knowledge of places/people is because she's not human - she could be a Time Lord or refugee from the time-locked Galifrey. Anyone care to discuss or refute?--ReTardis
River Song is specifically human plus time lord since she was conceived in the tardis while it was in the vortex this is why she can regenerate and this is stated in a good man goes to war. Do NOT listen to the rest of this paragraph these people got it completely wrong.
River Song has always been a mysterious character but as we find out in A Good Man Goes to War and Let's Kill Hitler she is the daughter of Amy Pond and Rory Williams. She is taken as a baby to be used as a weapon BECAUSE she is half time lord supposedly the only thing that can kill the doctor. As Madame Kovarian describes her she is "hope" in the war against the doctor.
As we see in a flashback Melody aka River appears as a toddler and she regenerates and then turns into Mels one of Amy's best friends. Also in Let's Kill Hitler, Hitler tries to shoot the teselecta but fails and accidentally shoots Mels who then regenerates turning into, finally, River Song, but as a child River was raised to kill the doctor so she kisses him but has poisonous lipstick on and the doctor starts to die. The Doctor unintentionally says River Song to her even though she doesn't know the name yet. At the end of the episode the Doctor whispers something into her ear about River Song and the dies. Melody asks who River Song is and the teselecta shows her. She takes all of her regeneration energy and uses it in one go, to save the Doctor, this is supposedly why she couldn't regenerate in Forest of the Dead.
So yes River Song is definitely human plus time lord. So just ignore next few paragraphs because I have no idea what the heck these people are talking about.
Right to kind of settle both arguments. Right now I think she may be neither Time-Lord or Human as nothing has really been confirmed and even though you Delton recall moffat and/or alex kingston refering to her as human this could mean anything inprevious stories they could be refering her to act human or look human doesn't neccesseeraly mean she is human and she may or may not be time lord because maybe the machine that killed her killed her to much for her regeneration kicked in like she said to the doctor about it burning up his hearts and him dying so we don't actually know if she is timelord or human. Time will tell and maybe we will get a result on saturday. -- Michael Downey 16:01, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
The fact that she physically "died" in Forest may not be indicative of her status as a native Gallifreyen. According to the section on time lords, only Time Lords who graduate from the Academy and receive the Rasillion Imprintur get the ability to regenerate and bond with a TARDIS. Regular natives of Gallifrey have a single heart and no ability to regenerate. Maybe River Song is actually the Doctor's daughter from a future liasion and that's why he had to give her his name - he's her parent! As for the theory of being a Time Agent, that's feasible. However, both Jack Harkness and John Hart wore their Vortex Manipulators - where is hers?--ReTardis
Dude, River is NOT the Doctor's daughter, Amy is. No, but seriously, those theories are always wrong. In the same reading, I could have sworn Moffat refered to her as being the Doctor's wife, which is a very, very popular theroy. I think it went something life: "Most people assume River is the Doctor's wife, but she is more than just that." Eh, so it doesn't deny it, it sounds like he is saying she is. In an old Comic Con, Julie Gardner asked out loud if River was the Doctor's wife, and I think Moffat whispere the reply or something. That, or he didn't give a clear answer. Delton Menace 01:22, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
Alex Kingston definitively referred to River Song as being human a couple years ago. But what does that prove? It's possible that Moffat hadn't thought of making her anything but human 2 years ago, or that he had thought of it but hadn't decided, or even that he had decided but hadn't told her (so it wouldn't leak out, or so she wouldn't try to act "alien", or whatever).
So, that information isn't all that useful. If she were to stay the same thing today, after having filmed this season, that would be a different story. Even better if Moffat referred to her as a human. But still, I think we'll know the answer eventually from inside the show, so anything until then is useless speculation (which is all in good fun, especially on The Howling, of course). --99.50.120.236 05:35, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
Why can't River Song be Jenny? That would establish a strong link between her and the Doctor, assuming that she was a future companion. Drakefantastic 21:14, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
Because it's a stupid, ridiculous, and very repetive theroy, no different than the Rani crap we get every year. And Doctor Who isn't about incest, either. River Song has a hinted sexual interest in the Doctor., and is implied to be his wife both off-screen and on-screen. Jenny is just a bialogical grown daughter from the 61st century, River is woman from the Doctor's future from the 51st century. End of. Delton Menace 01:10, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I think that's going a little _too_ far. It's not impossible--I'm sure if Moffat decided to do that tomorrow, he could find a way to write it into the story (given what we've seen so far; episodes 12 and 13 might change that...). But it is still very unlikely, because I don't think Moffat would _want_ to write it into the story.
- As for "Doctor Who isn't about incest"--well, yeah, but Doctor Who wasn't about romance, either--no hanky-panky in the TARDIS and all that--but RTD was able to change that and make it work. So, again, it's not impossible that Moffat could find a way to turn it into a classical Greek tragedy (or a soap opera or something) and make it work, it's just unlikely that he'd want to do so. If he wants to turn Doctor Who into Peter Pan, Oedipus or Elektra takes him pretty far away from his theme.... --Falcotron 05:39, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm sure I won't be popular for suggesting this; however, I'm going to anyway... ROMANA, ANYONE?!
- The time lords all died in TLGTW/The End of Time, Correct? No! Romana disappeared into E-Space during 4th doctor's tenure...
- Discuss.RUMyMommy 17:49, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Also, links in with Pandora/ Pondorica, see:
--RUMyMommy 18:16, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, Romana was brought back from E-Space in the spinoff media and became President of Gallifrey. As RTD himself pointed out, even if you ignore the licensed novels and audios, the BBC webcast version of Shada had Lady President Romana with the Eighth Doctor. As far as he's concerned, Romana was the President who was replaced by Rassilon.
- However, none of that actually happened on screen in the show, so if Moff wants to go with a strict TV-or-nothing continuity, he could bring Romana back. (He could even have Paul Cornell remake his novel Goth Opera with 11 instead of 5, just like he did with Human Nature.)
- Pandora, on the other hand, doesn't even exist other than in the spinoff continuity; if you bring her back, you pretty much have to accept that Romana came back and was President during the LGTW, which means she's dead.
- Also, even if Moff wanted to bring Romana back, why turn River into her? River and Romana are radically different characters, and both great characters, so why throw away one for no reason when you can have them both? In fact, they'd be even better interacting together, especially if Moffat is the writer (assuming here that Romana is at least a maybe-ex-girlfriend). --Falcotron 02:25, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
Giys have you seen the pics?http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.malevolentia.com/riversong.png&imgrefurl=http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php%3Fp%3D40856083&usg=__z-fpjtf63LuVR5zAc2HJDqLZTbo=&h=330&w=311&sz=124&hl=en&start=0&sig2=q98553MqqpcnfUrVP92hyg&zoom=1&tbnid=yQCP8fFaUennQM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=120&ei=h4xJTe7GOIywhQe3kbirDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Domega%2Briver%2Bsong%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1362%26bih%3D553%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=117&vpy=53&dur=170&hovh=231&hovw=218&tx=92&ty=135&oei=h4xJTe7GOIywhQe3kbirDg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0 Looks like the sign of omega if you ask me! Omega disappeaqred, didn't die. He was called 'the greatest by many. River apparently killed 'one of the greatest men who ever lived'. Is she working for him maybe? Or is she him..... Or Romana I think.
