Howling:Crossing timelines

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We know that it's dangerous, and possibly difficult, for a Time Lord to cross his own timeline. And the same is true for non-Time Lord time-travelers.

It's also dangerous, and possibly difficult, for two Time Lords to meet out of sequence. But if they're not both Time Lords, it doesn't seem to be any problem at all.

We've met time travelers in various episodes and novels who remember adventures the Doctor hasn't had yet. And we've actually watched the Doctor meeting (off the top of my head) Sarah Jane, Mel, Sam, Fitz/Kode/Kreiner, Rose, River, Amy, and Rory. And that's not even counting multi-Doctor stories, MA/PDA/BFA stories that take place in the Doctor's past, etc. It doesn't seem to take any special effort, and there are no negative consequences other than a bit of mild confusion.

So, why is it different?

I'm pretty sure we've never gotten an answer on-screen/-page/-CD, so I'm happy with either out-of-universe explanations or pure in-universe speculation. I'm curious what people can come up with, because I can't think of anything. (Especially since River is apparently part-way to being a Time Lady, or at least has a "Time Head", and is also the most out-of-order…) --173.228.85.118 05:52, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sure we have. Series 1, FATHER'S DAY. Boblipton 10:57, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

In the 20th-century run of the show, there were a few stories that dealt with people crossing or trying to cross their own timelines. Apart from the multi-Doctor stories, there was Day of the Daleks, in which the Blinovitch Limitation Effect was mentioned, and Mawdryn Undead, in which the Brigadier encountered himself. There are probably some others but they're failing to spring to mind. A search of this wiki for these episodes and for the Blinovitch Limitation Effect might provide more information. It's worth bearing in mind, however, that the Doctor told Rose, in Father's Day, that the consequences of such things had changed because the Time Lords were no longer around to limit the damage. --2.96.21.100 15:47, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Father's Day, Mawdryn Undead, etc. are examples of non-Time-Lord time-travelers crossing their own timelines. As I said at the top, we already know that's a problem, just as it is for Time Lords.

The question is why it isn't a problem for them to cross other time-travelers' timelines, unlike the case with two Time Lords. The Doctor can only meet the Master, Borusa, etc. in order (except in special and dangerous situations), but he can meet Mel or River out of order, and Sam and Fitz can meet each other out of order, etc., and there's no consequences? --173.228.85.118 19:34, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sure there is. "Spoilers" is more than about ruining story suspense.Boblipton 19:43, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

So your point is… in general, it really is just as bad as two time Time Lords meeting out of order, or crossing your own timestream, but because everyone involved is careful (River's spoiler policy, the 10th Doctor making sure 2004 Rose doesn't get a good look at his face, etc.), they keep getting away with it? I suppose that's possible, but it's weird for the Doctor to be so cavalier about breaking this rule while he's so deadly serious about the other three possibilities. --173.228.85.118 03:49, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Although it's minor, the Doctor refers to this problem near the end of Smith and Jones, when he goes back in time to remove his tie and convince Martha he really can travel in time. From memory, what he says is something like: "Crossing into established events is strictly forbidden -- except for cheap tricks." It may be that the Doctor's seemingly casual attitude is because, as a Time Lord, he knows what he can and can't get away with. --89.242.67.61 14:30, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Bingo! Well put. Boblipton 14:51, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

I guess that works. All four possibilities are dangerous, but the Doctor does them all anyway. (The only thing that's missing is the classic-series explanation, when he wasn't the only Time Lord—but that one's easy; he's more casual about it than them because he's spent centuries testing the boundaries of the rules while the rest of them sat around listening to speeches.) So, the fact that he talks about them inconsistently doesn't mean anything except that he's not always consistent.

I can buy that. Especially after going back and skimming the relevant part of Legacy of the Daleks—he's remarkably flippant about breaking the rule and meeting the Master out of order, he only gets away with it in the end because he was incredibly lucky, and he doesn't spare even a second to worry about that. --173.228.85.35 02:34, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

The 11th Doctor has crossed his timeline before. Matt Smith's first series finale had him jump back 12 minutes to tell himself something as the TARDIS was exploding. - SamOfTheWeb

Yes SamOfTheWeb but he only got away with that because of total event collapse, the universe literally never happened so he was exempt from any temporal laws or consequences. ~ CtrlAltDenied