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Howling:The Valeyard and McGann's regeneration (view source)
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I've long awaited a possible new story involving the Valeyard, especially since we've been approaching his supposed time of appearance. (''"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor – even you. The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say you do not improve with age."'' -The Master) For a long time up until The Day of the Doctor actually aired, I was under the impression that John Hurt might be playing the Valeyard, but that's clearly no longer the case. (Though the evidence was still there that it was possible. Including when Matt Smith said to John Hurt "but not in the name of the Doctor".) | I've long awaited a possible new story involving the Valeyard, especially since we've been approaching his supposed time of appearance. (''"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor – even you. The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say you do not improve with age."'' -The Master) For a long time up until The Day of the Doctor actually aired, I was under the impression that John Hurt might be playing the Valeyard, but that's clearly no longer the case. (Though the evidence was still there that it was possible. Including when Matt Smith said to John Hurt "but not in the name of the Doctor".) | ||
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:My impression was the the Sisterhood reviving the Doctor would have allowed him to regenerate naturally regardless of further interference, the Sisterhood's "potions" simply allowed the next form to be controlled, during the Second Doctor's trial, the Time Lord offer him the chance to pick his next form so there is precedent for that. But yeah, other Time Lords (e.g. Romana) have shown the ability to control their next forms. I think the most important part is that the Doctor naturally doesn't have much control over them for whatever reason and so needed assistance to take a certain form or to have certain traits. | :My impression was the the Sisterhood reviving the Doctor would have allowed him to regenerate naturally regardless of further interference, the Sisterhood's "potions" simply allowed the next form to be controlled, during the Second Doctor's trial, the Time Lord offer him the chance to pick his next form so there is precedent for that. But yeah, other Time Lords (e.g. Romana) have shown the ability to control their next forms. I think the most important part is that the Doctor naturally doesn't have much control over them for whatever reason and so needed assistance to take a certain form or to have certain traits. | ||
:That being said, I always got the impression that the Valeyard was not a true incarnation of the Doctor but rather an in-between form like the Watcher (or [[K'anpo Rimpoche|Cho Je]]). Which does lead to some potential hypothetical storylines; presumably one where the Doctor and the Valeyard have an ongoing conflict arc where the Valeyard is manifested and trying to take over and is eventually concluded with the Doctor finally winning and merging the Valeyard back into him and regenerating. I mean I guess until we see it we won't know but if the Valeyard is an in-between form I cannot really see it playing out any other way. - [[User:The Light6|The Light6]] [[User talk:The Light6|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:58, November 26, 2013 (UTC) | :That being said, I always got the impression that the Valeyard was not a true incarnation of the Doctor but rather an in-between form like the Watcher (or [[K'anpo Rimpoche|Cho Je]]). Which does lead to some potential hypothetical storylines; presumably one where the Doctor and the Valeyard have an ongoing conflict arc where the Valeyard is manifested and trying to take over and is eventually concluded with the Doctor finally winning and merging the Valeyard back into him and regenerating. I mean I guess until we see it we won't know but if the Valeyard is an in-between form I cannot really see it playing out any other way. - [[User:The Light6|The Light6]] [[User talk:The Light6|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:58, November 26, 2013 (UTC) | ||
:Although not the most trustworthy of witnesses, the Master did say (in ''[[The Trial of a Time Lord]]'') that the Valeyard wasn't a true incarnation of the Doctor. What he said also implied that the Valeyard wasn't an in-between form like the Watcher, either. He described the Valeyard as an incarnation of an '''aspect''' of the Doctor (his dark side), rather than of the Doctor himself. The Valeyard was said to have arisen "between [the Doctor's] twelfth & final incarnations" -- i.e., at round about the Doctor's next regeneration, since Eleven is the Doctor's twelfth incarnation. --[[Special:Contributions/89.241.217.89|89.241.217.89]]<sup>[[User talk:89.241.217.89#top|talk to me]]</sup> 17:02, November 26, 2013 (UTC) | |||
::Yeah, I've always thought of the Valeyard as a separate physical entity from the Doctor, an "offshoot branch" that came about ''during'' a regeneration as his darker side "broke out", sort of like, Doctor 12 is standing there when he begins to regenerate, and then Doctor 13 and the Valeyard are both standing there as the regeneration ends (or a dark cloud that manifests physically later on). —[[User:BioniclesaurKing4t2|BioniclesaurKing4t2]] - [[User talk:BioniclesaurKing4t2|"Hello, I'm the Doctor.]] [[Special:Contributions/BioniclesaurKing4t2|Basically, . . . ''run''."]] 19:28, November 26, 2013 (UTC) | |||
Okay kids, ''this'' is where it gets complicated: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/11/26/matt-smith-is-the-13th-doctor. | |||
Yes, you read that right. Moffat has announced that the Eleventh Doctor is, well, the thirteenth. Of course he could be lying again (or just telling the truth in a very clever way), but this could be genuine. And if it is, then The Valeyard is relevant to this. If what Moffat is saying is true, then the Tenth Doctor's violent regeneration was the one where anything Valeyard-related should have occurred. And of course the fact that it tore up the TARDIS could be something to do with The Valeyard. Any thoughts? | |||
I agree as seeing as the tenth died protesting instead of accepting his death like the other doctors, it's most likely that this would be the time for the Valeyard to be created. Seeing that the Valeyard is only an aspect of the Doctor, it could have been created because of the violent regeneration. I don't know how but of course we don't know everything about time lords. Maybe it's a natural Gallifreyan thing to happen. But, if the doctor was regenerating in his tardis in the far future, how could the Valeyard have popped up somewhere completely different? | |||
By the way, this announcement has it's own thread where you can talk about everything it may mean for the show, not just The Valeyard. [[Special:Contributions/87.102.91.126|87.102.91.126]]<sup>[[User talk:87.102.91.126#top|talk to me]]</sup> 20:25, November 27, 2013 (UTC) | |||