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::: I still don't see why that ([[Companion (Worlds in Time)]]) was deleted, I mean, what the main companion does in each level is basically set in stone, only his name and race is left to question... And no, I don't think it's a way to say "you," similar to [[Graak]]. If [[Graak]] was unnamed, wed still have it's page! So do we not plan to have a page on this companion on this wiki? [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 17:06, March 23, 2012 (UTC) | ::: I still don't see why that ([[Companion (Worlds in Time)]]) was deleted, I mean, what the main companion does in each level is basically set in stone, only his name and race is left to question... And no, I don't think it's a way to say "you," similar to [[Graak]]. If [[Graak]] was unnamed, wed still have it's page! So do we not plan to have a page on this companion on this wiki? [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 17:06, March 23, 2012 (UTC) | ||
::::Because narrative happens to a particular character. What happened to Jo in ''[[The Mind of Evil]]'' did not ''also'' happen to Sarah Jane in ''[[The Brain of Morbius]]''. Or in gaming terms, what happens to Samus in ''Metroid Prime'' doesn't happen Sonic the Hedgehog or <insert name here> in <insert game here>. It doesn't happen to millions of ''different'' characters. Your approach and success with ''Worlds in Time'' is going to be different to mine. I might invite people to play with me, and thereby kick "Darren the Silurian" — which must surely rank as one of the stupidest names ever — out of the narrative. We might face basically the same mission, but it's going to transpire differently, if for no other reason than that I have real players on my side and you have NPCs. For you, the story might be, "The [[Companion (Worlds in Time)]] tried to defeat an Auton, but was repulsed several times until he finally overcame the pesky plastic creature on the tenth attempt." For me, it might be, "the three [[Companion (Worlds in Time)|Companion]]s easily overwhelmed the Autons and saved London in the blink of an eye." Which is right? They both are. Which is why this doesn't work. There's no ''character'' to the companion. There's no way to describe them except in terms of what obstacles they overcame. | ::::Because narrative happens to a particular character. What happened to Jo in ''[[The Mind of Evil (TV story)|The Mind of Evil]]'' did not ''also'' happen to Sarah Jane in ''[[The Brain of Morbius]]''. Or in gaming terms, what happens to Samus in ''Metroid Prime'' doesn't happen Sonic the Hedgehog or <insert name here> in <insert game here>. It doesn't happen to millions of ''different'' characters. Your approach and success with ''Worlds in Time'' is going to be different to mine. I might invite people to play with me, and thereby kick "Darren the Silurian" — which must surely rank as one of the stupidest names ever — out of the narrative. We might face basically the same mission, but it's going to transpire differently, if for no other reason than that I have real players on my side and you have NPCs. For you, the story might be, "The [[Companion (Worlds in Time)]] tried to defeat an Auton, but was repulsed several times until he finally overcame the pesky plastic creature on the tenth attempt." For me, it might be, "the three [[Companion (Worlds in Time)|Companion]]s easily overwhelmed the Autons and saved London in the blink of an eye." Which is right? They both are. Which is why this doesn't work. There's no ''character'' to the companion. There's no way to describe them except in terms of what obstacles they overcame. | ||
::::And then there's the vexed question of describing their relationship to the Doctor. Or, worse, what their room aboard the TARDIS looks like. It's an ''awfully'' important part of WIT, that room, yet it'll be as individualised as the person playing the game. Because, again, "the companion" is ''you''. It has no back story, no life prior to or after this game, no relationships of any kind. The Doctor merely welcomes it — ''you'' — on board and starts telling you what to do. There's no narrative there, no character, ''nothing'' to write about from an in-universe perspective. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}17:35: Fri 23 Mar 2012 </span> | ::::And then there's the vexed question of describing their relationship to the Doctor. Or, worse, what their room aboard the TARDIS looks like. It's an ''awfully'' important part of WIT, that room, yet it'll be as individualised as the person playing the game. Because, again, "the companion" is ''you''. It has no back story, no life prior to or after this game, no relationships of any kind. The Doctor merely welcomes it — ''you'' — on board and starts telling you what to do. There's no narrative there, no character, ''nothing'' to write about from an in-universe perspective. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}17:35: Fri 23 Mar 2012 </span> | ||
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::::4) YOU choose the path to where you head | ::::4) YOU choose the path to where you head | ||
::WIT does one of these things. Basically you choose what order you do things in, which is not very you-choose-your-fate-ish. Sure, you have a chat box, but that doesn't affect the plot or conversations (the most it can do is get you banned for cursing...) So... the most it does is let you be who you want to be, but, really, the charactor you creates appears before you make it, that's why I used [[:File:Companion.jpg]] for the image, because it was before you got to choose ANYTHING for the character. So really, you just gave features to an already-there-character. It'd be like if they made a video game centered around [[scared man]] and let you change his name. He's still be | ::WIT does one of these things. Basically you choose what order you do things in, which is not very you-choose-your-fate-ish. Sure, you have a chat box, but that doesn't affect the plot or conversations (the most it can do is get you banned for cursing...) So... the most it does is let you be who you want to be, but, really, the charactor you creates appears before you make it, that's why I used [[:File:Companion.jpg]] for the image, because it was before you got to choose ANYTHING for the character. So really, you just gave features to an already-there-character. It'd be like if they made a video game centered around [[Scared man (The Stolen Earth)|scared man]] and let you change his name. He's still be scared man, only now he'd also have been in a video game... possibly ''The Adventures of Scared Man 5'' or something... | ||
::Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not a role playing game, I'm saying that it doesn't give a lot of freedom to the player, thus making it very easy to write about the game ''without including info that the player chooses, like name and such.'' [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 20:30, March 23, 2012 (UTC) | ::Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not a role playing game, I'm saying that it doesn't give a lot of freedom to the player, thus making it very easy to write about the game ''without including info that the player chooses, like name and such.'' [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 20:30, March 23, 2012 (UTC) | ||
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== Getting back to the question of RPGs == | == Getting back to the question of RPGs == | ||
I note upthread that we've had even more new comments that are off topic. We're not debating the whole of canon policy. This section isn't about ''Search Out Space'' or ''Dimensions in Time'' or the broader canon policy. I emphasise again that "canon policy" doesn't mean "canon". It means merely what are the limits of this wiki. The need for the distinction is obvious when you think of thorny fan bugbears like the question of whether the Doctor is half human. The sources you're allowed to bring into the consideration of that question matter very much to the answer you're going to get. If you can't bring in ''[[The Forgotten]]'', just because it's a comic book, then you're going to have a different answer than if you do. Thus when we say "canon policy" we are talking more about what this wiki allows you to bring to bear on any particular subject. We're not actually trying to tell you what to believe about canon. If you want to make ''Worlds in Time'' a part of your personal canon, that's fine. | I note upthread that we've had even more new comments that are off topic. We're not debating the whole of canon policy. This section isn't about ''Search Out Space'' or ''Dimensions in Time'' or the broader canon policy. I emphasise again that "canon policy" doesn't mean "canon". It means merely what are the limits of this wiki. The need for the distinction is obvious when you think of thorny fan bugbears like the question of whether the Doctor is half human. The sources you're allowed to bring into the consideration of that question matter very much to the answer you're going to get. If you can't bring in ''[[The Forgotten (comic story)|The Forgotten]]'', just because it's a comic book, then you're going to have a different answer than if you do. Thus when we say "canon policy" we are talking more about what this wiki allows you to bring to bear on any particular subject. We're not actually trying to tell you what to believe about canon. If you want to make ''Worlds in Time'' a part of your personal canon, that's fine. | ||
The question before us, again, is '''nothing to do with canon''' in the way that fans usually use it to denote whether a story is ''in continuity''. Rather, it's whether it makes sense to allow RPGs into our list of things which comprise our list of approved sources? | The question before us, again, is '''nothing to do with canon''' in the way that fans usually use it to denote whether a story is ''in continuity''. Rather, it's whether it makes sense to allow RPGs into our list of things which comprise our list of approved sources? | ||