Howling:Problems with the Miracle: Difference between revisions

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 I think I'll just wait for the DVD, since there's only a month or something before it comes out. I think I had enough of low quality online versions of episodes back when there was no sign that the TV Movie would ever be released on region 1. Anyway, I doubt that the Trickster's Brigade was involved. They were going for an entirely different plan in the 20s, and Jack stopped them. Really, the Brigade was just a plot point to bring Jack to New York so that he could meet Angelo and the families. I think the Family-woman said that the e-mail was to lure Jack out of hiding so that the families could kill Jack to get rid of the last mortal blood. Ironically, of course, Jack wouldn't even have returned to Earth, known about the Miracle, or tried to stop them if they hadn't sent the e-mail, but they must have assumed that he was on the planet somewhere.[[User:Icecreamdif|Icecreamdif]] <sup>[[User talk:Icecreamdif|talk to me]]</sup> 23:07, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
-Isn't the TV movie on Dailymotion? Anyway, back on the subject, one thing that confused me in "Escape to L.A." was Ellis Hartley Monroe's eyeball. Surely it would have popped out with the pressure. Unless it was left in a perfect eyeball shaped space, I don't see how she could move it. [[Special:Contributions/87.102.117.106|87.102.117.106]]<sup>[[User talk:87.102.117.106#top|talk to me]]</sup> 17:01, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
+Anyway, back on the subject, one thing that confused me in "Escape to L.A." was Ellis Hartley Monroe's eyeball. Surely it would have popped out with the pressure. Unless it was left in a perfect eyeball shaped space, I don't see how she could move it. [[Special:Contributions/87.102.117.106|87.102.117.106]]<sup>[[User talk:87.102.117.106#top|talk to me]]</sup> 17:01, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
-only use dailymotion for the classic series. there are much better websites for the rest. also, about the eyeball, maybe it wasn't squished. with the car surrounding her when she was crushed, there would have been pockets of space where the metal wasn't and maybe her eye just so happened to be in one of those spaces. [[User:Imamadmad|Imamadmad]] <sup>[[User talk:Imamadmad|talk to me]]</sup> 04:54, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
+also, about the eyeball, maybe it wasn't squished. with the car surrounding her when she was crushed, there would have been pockets of space where the metal wasn't and maybe her eye just so happened to be in one of those spaces. [[User:Imamadmad|Imamadmad]] <sup>[[User talk:Imamadmad|talk to me]]</sup> 04:54, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 Let's cause a Miracle, squish someone in a car and find out what happens. [[Special:Contributions/87.102.117.106|87.102.117.106]]<sup>[[User talk:87.102.117.106#top|talk to me]]</sup> 12:55, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
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 That theory is severely flawed, because Jack did die, shortly before the Miracle was negated, so we know it's possible for him to be mortal and dead. Anyway it's not like the Miracle would last forever. Only the morphic field was sustaining the power of the Miracle. When the Earth ended Jack's remains would float from the vicinity of the field and be reimmortalised. Whoologist: The Miracle is not the only way you can keep him dead. If you somehow put Jack in the core of the planet, any attempts at rebuilding the body would be instantly fried to a crisp, and Jack would remain dead for millions and millions of years. As I said, a lot earlier in the discussion, you can not kill Jack for good at all. All you can do is delay his ressurection. [[Special:Contributions/94.72.226.244|94.72.226.244]]<sup>[[User talk:94.72.226.244#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:36, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
+The theory isn't "severely flawed". Jack didn't stay dead. He's died umpteen times and then come back. The point is that it messes up a fixed point if and only if he '''doesn't''' come back. Perhaps I ought to have made the point clearer by saying "died permanently" but the point remains that the Miracle didn't in fact mess up a fixed point, so there's no reason for the consequences of messing up a fixed point to have occurred. --[[Special:Contributions/89.240.242.157|89.240.242.157]]<sup>[[User talk:89.240.242.157#top|talk to me]]</sup> 02:16, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
+Perhaps I ought to make my point clearer: It is completely impossible to kill Jack permanently. Even if you took him to the very beginning of the Universe it would be next to impossible to keep him dead until the end. [[Special:Contributions/77.86.123.149|77.86.123.149]]<sup>[[User talk:77.86.123.149#top|talk to me]]</sup> 10:46, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
+'''You''' are missing '''my''' point, which is pretty much the same as yours. Whooligist referred to changing a fixed point in time but that would only actually be the case if Jack '''did''' somehow stay dead permanently. He didn't, so the fixed point is still as it should be, so we didn't get the consequences of a fixed point being changed. In Jack's case, genuinely changing the fixed point is, as you say, "next to impossible". Accordingly, Whooligist is wrong in what he said. See his contribution of 22:07, March 8, 2012 (UTC), above.
+Please stop arguing with someone who agrees with you. There's plenty of opportunity around here to argue with people who disagree with you. --[[Special:Contributions/78.146.181.30|78.146.181.30]]<sup>[[User talk:78.146.181.30#top|talk to me]]</sup> 11:37, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
+Afterthought: As far as I can see, about the only way to change this particular fixed point in time would be to intercept Jack at a point in his timeline before he went to the Game Station and kill him then, so he couldn't be there to be resurrected by Rose/Bad Wolf. I'm not totally sure even that would work but I can't think of anything else that might. --[[Special:Contributions/78.146.181.30|78.146.181.30]]<sup>[[User talk:78.146.181.30#top|talk to me]]</sup> 11:52, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
+Putting him in a time loop might work. Provided you kill him first. [[Special:Contributions/178.78.67.209|178.78.67.209]]<sup>[[User talk:178.78.67.209#top|talk to me]]</sup> 19:55, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
+Since it was the power of the time vortex itself, exercised by Rose/Bad Wolf, that made him immortal in the first place and keeps bringing him back to life, that would be more likely to break the time loop than to keep him dead. --[[Special:Contributions/89.242.75.19|89.242.75.19]]<sup>[[User talk:89.242.75.19#top|talk to me]]</sup> 21:25, March 12, 2012 (UTC)