Talk:Trent Alexander-Arnold

Rename proposition

We really need to have a proper discussion on this, but as it stands this is really not what the conjecture tag is for. Although it is not specifically disallowed, Template:Conjecture/doc states that the tag is for when we have to make up a name in order to name the page in a sensible manner. Just mentioning this before any mod goes and moves the page without discussion - this is not an uncontroversial change. Danochy ☎ 11:12, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I kinda disagree - see, there are other Trents in the DWU, so on just that count, moving this page for better disambigution would be preferable. Second of all, using the full name would improve searchability. Thirdly, there is ample precedent for this type of name change.

Epsilon📯 📂

11:22, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I know you disagree, hence why this needs a proper discussion - PLEASE forums can you return soon 🙏. But yeah from my point of view it's much better to disambiguate using in-universe information wherever possible. As for searchability, searching "Trent Alexander-Arnold" will show you a single page known as "Trent (footballer)" - very little possibility for confusion. Precedent goes both ways, e.g. Billie (The Gathering), Fletcher (The Haunting of Villa Diodati), Jeremy (Party Fears Two), Lanz (Just War) just to name a few found within a couple of minutes. More opinions and more analysis of policy is the only way we can come up with the best way of standardising this naming policy. Danochy ☎ 11:34, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I agree User:Epsilon the Eternal. We should strive to use in-universe information wherever possible, but in cases such as these, where a person from the real world is being referenced, using a full name and conjecture tag aids disambiguation, improves searchability and leads to less work in the long run. In these cases, where we use the full name of a topic from the real world with a conjecture tag, only sourced information should enter the body of the text (e.g. this person should only be named as Trent in the main text. His full name can be placed in the behind the scenes section). We already have multiple precedents for this; however, once the forums become available, I would say that this does formally need to be agreed upon and written up as part of the Template:Conjecture/doc.66 Seconds ☎ 15:48, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

When discussing this, I invite you to also look at such cases as Alien Autopsy. The film is discussed in PROSE: Slow Decay but remains unnamed within the book. Based on real world information, we know that the film is Alien Autopsy, but the closest title we could have from in-universe information would be Film (Slow Decay). Using the conjecture tag for such cases simply makes the wiki a whole lot easier to navigate. 66 Seconds ☎ 16:01, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, the absence of the forums for over a year and countless missed deadlines by @CzechOut is getting very old, very quick. He needs to buck up and just get on with it - I know that restoring them would take a couple of days at most, and what's even worse is that other users have offered to do it for him, but he refused.

Note about Billie (The Gathering) and Jeremy (Party Fears Two) - with Billie, it was a reference to her as a singer, and her stage name at the time was just "Billie" - I initially didn't know this and tried to get the page moved to Billie Piper (The Gathering).

As for Jeremy, I noticed that in every story he's in, no matter if its a celebratory story by Obverse Books or a biography told from the POV of a cat, the surname "Hoad" was never used. Which to me, seems deliberately vague in so many stories, the exclusion of "Hoad" must be intentional.

I know that you gave these as just examples, and that they could be swapped out, but I felt that the specifics were worth mentioning. As for Fletcher (The Haunting of Villa Diodati) and Lanz (Just War), I reckon those pages should be moved. If I had known of them previosuly, I would've advocated for them to be renamed. :P

Epsilon📯 📂

16:07, 1 November 2021 (UTC)