User talk:Alden Loveshade

Spoilers

Hi please make sure to read our spoiler policy at Tardis:Spoiler policy. No matter how official something is, on this wiki it's considered a spoiler until air time of an episode with the information. The posts you have made on the discussion board have been deleted because you did not put them in the Spoilers category. Thanks Shambala108 ☎ 03:15, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

As talk pages are no longer fully supported by Fandom, I'm posting this both as an edit to the original post on my talk page and am posting it on the talk page of the editor who posted on my talk page.

As it happens, I did read the Spoiler policy and also the Spoiler page which defines spoiler differently. By both of those, I personally don't see this as a spoiler. Among many other sources, it's been publicly reported as headline news (i.e. even without reading the article, the information is in the headline) by:

1. scifi.radio
2. huffpost.com
3. wikipedia.org
4. cnn.com
5. hollywoodlife.com
6. cbsnews.com
7. nbcnews.com
8. abcnews.go.com
9. abc.net.au
10. sabcnews.com
11. flipboard.com
12. thesun.co.uk
13. the-sun.com
14. theverge.com
15. popbuzz.com
16. radiotimes.com
17. npr.com
18. news.yahoo.com
19. theguardian.com
20. vulture.com
21. columbian.com
22. euronews.com
23. theglobalherald.com
24. nytimes.com
25. people.com
26. buzzfeednews.com
27. theguardian.com
28. usatoday.com
29. wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu
30. usmagazine.com
31. ign.com
32. ew.com
33. collider.com
34. variety.com
35. wsj.com
36. tvline.com
37. popsugar.com
38. insider.com
39. aol.com
40. digitalspy.com
41. msn.com
42. sfgate.com
43. upi.com
44. reuters.com
45. bbc.com

Even doing just a basic search for "Doctor Who," that information pops up among of the top results.

"Spoiler" is apparently applied on this wiki in a way that doesn't fit English language definitions of the word.

For example, Merriam-Webster: "information about the plot of a motion picture or TV program that can spoil a viewer's sense of surprise or :suspense" also "a person who discloses such information."

Perhaps you might want to find or even create a word that would have the definition you intend. This could be a word that would clarify that you do not allow on-topic public information that appears in so many sources that it's hard to avoid seeing it.

I hope this helps!

Alden Loveshade ☎ 19:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

To be honest, if you have indeed read the spoiler policy and still can't see how stating casting information for a future episode is a spoiler, then I don't know what to tell you. All I can do is continue to remove your edits that violate policy, and if you refuse to understand what our policy is (which has nothing to do with official dictionary definitions and has everything to do with giving every user a safe place to visit), then you may end up being blocked if you continue to violate the policy.

And I don't understand your comment that "talk pages are not supported" since we are obviously having a conversation on our two talk pages. Shambala108 ☎ 03:01, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

To clarify, I actually wrote "talk pages are no longer fully supported by Fandom." Newer wikis often do not have them; I believe after Wikia became Fandom, new Wikis don't have talk pages by default.

I personally don't understand how information about Doctor Who that is actually hard to avoid online counts as a "spoiler." I listed 45 news services that have reported the story in their headline--and there are more. If you want, try doing a search for "Doctor Who" and see if information about the major coming change to the series doesn't appear.

While I realize Fandom gives a fair amount of leeway to editors of an individual Wiki, I frankly have never seen anything even near this view of "spoiler" on or off of Fandom--if you don't count societies that tremendously limit freedom of speech/the press. And I have "been around" so to speak. For one thing, I was editing before this became Fandom, and even before it became Wikia, back in the Wikicities days. I've since written professionally for several news and entertainment services. I am currently looking at writing an article about Doctor Who, and am working out details of a contract to write a book that deals in part with The Doctor (admittedly in very small part, but still a part). That's actually what got me to this wiki.

If it will help, I can post a discussion in the Community forum to seek input from editors of other wikis on this "spoiler" issue, and from Fandom staff. Perhaps the input of others might help us find a common solution to this issue.

Alden Loveshade ☎ 03:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

If you're interested, my most recent book (which is admittedly pretty short) is GURPS Fantasy Folk: Elves. While it doesn't discuss Doctor Who directly, it does deal with "space elves" (including v.....s from S... T...: I don't know if I'm allowed to name an alien race or a science fiction TV show that doesn't appear in a Doctor Who episode. I'm sure I can mention elves as they appeared in Last Christmas of 2005.) It touches a bit on traveling in time, space, and dimensions. Alden Loveshade ☎

Let me be clear on an issue I think you are not understanding. We have such a strict spoiler policy so that anyone can edit here, even people who want to avoid spoilers. (There's also the fact that sometimes pre-release info might be correct, and it's easier to not have to change something after it's been created. Back during the Eleventh Doctor, the wiki created a page for Vampires in Venice under the title that was given out ahead of release, only to find that the actual title was different, necessitating a name change and a lot of link corrections.) When Peter Capaldi was named as the Twelfth Doctor, we had an admin who wanted to remain spoiler free until the episode reveal and succeeded in doing so.

On this wiki we are aware that other wikis have different spoiler policies (for example, on Wookipedia you can't discuss an episode for a whole month after it airs except in certain specified spoilery areas). So the implication that we need help understanding what a spoiler policy is just isn't necessary. But feel free to contact Community. I suggest User:CzechOut, who is a staff member on Community, has edited on this wiki for nearly a couple of decades, and had a big hand in creating the spoiler policy. (And he is also the admin who managed to stay spoiler free before Capaldi was revealed.)

To sum up, the main reason for our spoiler policy is so that anyone can feel safe in editing here, even those who want to avoid all spoilers. That's unlikely to change since the goal of a wiki is to have as many viewers as possible. Shambala108 ☎ 14:53, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

"To sum up, the main reason for our spoiler policy is so that anyone can feel safe in editing here...."

That may be the intent, but I don't see it actually being practical. It seems to amount to 'This is the Doctor Who Wiki, which anyone can edit. No canon here, we accept all forms of Doctor Who, we're very open. But if you put anything about Doctor Who that doesn't fit the things we've decided are the only things you can talk about here, we'll restrict you and threaten to block you."

Again, I've written professionally for a number of publishers including the Associated Press, Yahoo News, and NBC Sports Network. I'm fully used to strict standards of accountability, balanced reporting, and fairness. I've also written for probably dozens of wikis, and have admined a few. But I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of a policy like this. So I'm afraid to edit here. Alden Loveshade ☎ 20:39, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Forums and talk pages

To address your question about talk pages and such:

• If you have a question that is best asked of an admin, use their talk page.
• If you have a question/comment about a specific wiki page, use that article's talk page.
• If you have a question/comment about a general wiki rule, we usually use the forums. Until those are brought back, for now you can ask an admin who can direct you to existing policy or otherwise give you advice.

Shambala108 ☎ 14:55, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

OK. There seems to be a misunderstanding here. The traditional Forum format is no longer supported by Fandom. It has been replaced by Discuss. You can see this even on the official Fandom Community site at https://community.fandom.com/f

By Fandom policy, changes and such are intended to be discussed and decided upon by the community as a whole. Admittedly, Fandom often gives wide berth to a community (probably largely because wikis outnumber staff members by a huge number).

You might want to keep in mind that this wiki is being migrated soon to a different format. It's possible that more of the traditional functions will no longer function. (I personally would prefer things changed slower--it seems that just about when I've gotten used to the changes, things change again. But that's the way it is.)

As I'm apparently not allowed to discuss things that affect this wiki community with the community on this wiki, perhaps I can discuss this on the Community site. Sometimes getting other viewpoints can be helpful.

Alden Loveshade ☎ 20:27, 14 May 2022 (UTC)