Talk:Colony ship (World Enough and Time): Difference between revisions

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Thalek Prime Overseer

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 is someone going to point out how technically speaking, time moving slower closer to the black hole (which I understood to be toward the lower floors, opposite the control deck; the crew that left the control deck went to check on the thrusters, toward the black hole, right?), should mean they have *less* time than the floors further away from it? I.e., the people that left the control deck should be basically frozen in place relative the people that remained, as opposed to procreating like crazy. Did I misunderstand which way the ship is oriented or something?--{{User:Macks2010/sig}} 04:12, July 21, 2019 (UTC)
+:Per [[Tardis:Discussion policy]], article talk pages are to be used only to discuss the editing of articles. For plot holes etc visit [[Theory:Discontinuity index]] thanks [[Special:Contributions/68.131.63.11|68.131.63.11]]<sup>[[User talk:68.131.63.11#top|talk to me]]</sup> 04:39, July 21, 2019 (UTC)
+:: For the record, [[User:Macks2010]] does in fact have the information backwards. The Mondasian ship first headed ''towards'' the black hole (and are now reversing by having put the ''thrusters'' on reverse thrust, without having reoriented the ship itself), so the control deck is closer to the black hole, and the engines at the back of the ship are further away. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:05, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
+==Name==
+Should this page be renamed to "Mondasian colony ship"? Given that said name is how it's referred to on nearly every page it's mentioned? [[User:CyberFoundries900|CyberFoundries900]] [[User talk:CyberFoundries900|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:52, August 29, 2020 (UTC)
+To expand my point - the colony ship is from Mondas, thereby meaning that the term "Mondasian colony ship" is technically the most distinct and valid name for it, even if such exact wording is never used in-universe. Also, ''Mondasian colony ship'' is less of a disambiguation term than ''Colony ship (World Enough and Time)''. [[User:Thalek Prime Overseer|Thalek Prime Overseer]] [[User talk:Thalek Prime Overseer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:38, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
+:: Thing is, there's no reason to assume this is the ''only'' "Mondasian colony ship" out there, so we'd still have to disambiguate it. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:32, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
+::: I know that the term "Mondasian colony ship" is still a disambiguation term, and that there's no reason to assume that there's only one Mondasian colony ship. I just wondered if perhaps the term ''Mondasian colony ship'' would be a less of a disambiguation term than ''Colony ship (World Enough and Time)''. Perhaps, instead, we could have ''Mondasian colony ship'' as a page referring to the ships as a type of colony ship, and then name this page ''Mondasian colony ship (World Enough and Time)? [[User:Thalek Prime Overseer|Thalek Prime Overseer]] [[User talk:Thalek Prime Overseer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:47, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
+:::: I don't think there's much call for a [[Mondasian colony ship]] overview page unless we see more Mondasian colony ships and get evidence that there are distinguishing traits that set ''Mondasian'' colony ships, in general, apart from run-of-the-mill [[colony ship]].
+:::: Either way, the way I see it, lengthening the name of this page could only have as its aim to obviate the need for a dab page. If the more specific description still needs a parenthetical dab term on ''top'' of the adjective, what have we achieved? [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:14, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
+::: I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you mean in your second paragraph. Are you referring to the idea of naming this page ''Mondasian colony ship (World Enough and Time''? Or something else? [[User:Thalek Prime Overseer|Thalek Prime Overseer]] [[User talk:Thalek Prime Overseer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:09, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
+::::Okay, I thin I understand what you're saying, but I still think we should go with ''Mondasian colony ship''. You previously mentioned that you thought there is no reason to assume that this ship is the only Mondasian colony ship out there, yet you then later said that there wasn't much need for an overview page on Mondasian colony ships in general. In which case, why assume that there are other Mondasian colony ships out there? I say unless a later story actually establishes that Mondasian colony ships are a ''type'', and not just an individual ship, this page should be name ''Mondasian colony ship'', because there isn't any reason to assume that there ''are'' other ships of its kind out there. [[User:Thalek Prime Overseer|Thalek Prime Overseer]] [[User talk:Thalek Prime Overseer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
+:: There are two different questions at play. Question 1: are there other Mondasian colony ships, or this the only one? Question 2: if the answer to the previous question is "yes", are "Mondasian colony ships" worthy of an overview page? Those are linked but separate questions.
+:: Here's a comparison: suppose we have an unnamed woman in a story. We know little about her; we do know that she is, I dunno, left-handed. Should we call her page [[Left-handed woman]]? Well, no. She is a woman who happens to be left-handed, but there's no indication that she is the sole left-handed woman in the DWU. We'd have to call her [[Left-handed woman (Terror of the Forexamplons)]]. But that implies that "Left-handed woman" is a ''kind'', the way "Dalek" is a ''kind'' that allows us to do pages like [[Dalek (The Also People)]]. Otherwise we'd just go with [[Woman (Terror of the Forexamlons)]], because that's shorter. Well, left-handed women aren't a "kind" — we know that there is at least one left-handed in the DWU who are left-handed, we surmise that they may be more; but it is not clear that this makes them pageworthy separate from the concepts of womanhood and left-handedness.
+:: So is it with "Mondasian colony ships", IMO. It is more speculative than not to say that this was the ''only'' "Mondasian colony ship" in history. But absent further information, I don't think "Mondasian colony ship" is a meaningfully unique type of colony ship any more than "New-Zealandese cars" are distinct from "cars", no matter how many there are. It is a Mondasian colony ship in the sense that a New-Zealandese car is New-Zealandese, not in the same sense that French toast is French — that it is Mondasian is a random fact, not something that ''colours'' its colony-ship-ness. Even if we had records of other Mondasian colony ships, we wouldn't have a [[Mondasian colony ship]] overview page, anymore than we have a [[Left-handed woman]] page.
+:: I hope all this makes sense. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
+:: I think I'm getting it now. So basically, there's only one Mondasian colony ship that we know actually exists, so we can't make a page identifying Mondasian colony ships as a "type" of ship. But even if we did learn of other Mondasian colony ships, that ''still'' wouldn't be enough info necessarily to create a page on Mondasian colony ships as a "type", ''unless'' all Mondasian colony ships had the same design and layout. Therefore, there's not much reason to change the page name. Am I right?
+:: Also, sorry I haven't responded in two months. I was thinking this over a little bit when I first saw your response, then somehow forgot for ages. But I think I understand your point now. [[User:Thalek Prime Overseer|Thalek Prime Overseer]] [[User talk:Thalek Prime Overseer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:53, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
+:::: Yes, that's right! And don't worry about the long response time… we all get busy. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:07, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
+::: Given that this debate seems resolved, am I okay to remove the rename tag? I should probably have asked this months ago. [[User:Thalek Prime Overseer|Thalek Prime Overseer]] [[User talk:Thalek Prime Overseer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
+::: Okay, this discussion seems to have been well and truly resolved for close to a year now, so I'm going to assume that it's okay to remove the proposed rename tag. I apologise in advance if this is not the right decision, but there appears to be no need for the tag to remain any longer. [[User:Thalek Prime Overseer|Thalek Prime Overseer]] [[User talk:Thalek Prime Overseer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:09, 27 May 2022 (UTC)