Theory talk:Timeline - Fourth Doctor: Difference between revisions

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[[User:SarahJaneFan|SarahJaneFan]] [[User talk:SarahJaneFan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:41, October 2, 2018 (UTC)
[[User:SarahJaneFan|SarahJaneFan]] [[User talk:SarahJaneFan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:41, October 2, 2018 (UTC)
: The main (and by "main" I mostly mean "sole") reason those entries are there falls under two reasonings: release dates and the Doctor's outfit. The annual stories where released alongside Season 13, which was the season which Harry left. Publication wise, the only explanation is that Harry rejoined for a while after he left, since there was no gap between ''Revenge of the Cybermen'' and ''Terror of the Zygons'' at the time. Another reason is the Doctor's outfit; in these entries, he's wearing his Season 13 outfit. Then again, it could be possible for them to fit between ''Revenge of the Cybermen'' and ''Terror of the Zygons'', if we lead with the assumption it took the Doctor and co. a lot longer than initial thought to get to Scotland.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:59, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
I did some more research on the annual Stories (I realised that these annuals come as special features with some of the classic DVDs) and had a look myself. I’m really not convinced that it is actually the Season 13 costume which appears in that annual. What he wears is often obscured and never consistent, not to mention the unreliability of the artwork in these annuals. However, I also came to the conclusion that there’s no way that Ark in Space isn’t Harry’s first trip in the TARDIS, so although I would have liked to place all of those annual stories and short trips before ''The Ark in Space'', I believe they’d all be better placed sometime after ''The Android Invasion'', with the Doctor returning to work for UNIT, while still taking side trips with Sarah, and having Harry accompany them occasionally.
[[User:SarahJaneFan|SarahJaneFan]] [[User talk:SarahJaneFan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:55, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
:: Aye, that could also work. I mean, upon further inspection, while ''Death Flower'' does have Sarah-Jane say she's still getting use to the new face, the Doctor does make reference to "[shaving] each day", so some time has passed since ''Robot'', a couple of days for the Doctor at least.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:25, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
I’d argue that there could be wriggle room between Robot and Ark in Space for the Doctor and Sarah Jane, if we assume that the trip at the end of Robot was unsuccessful, but for Harry I can’t see him having several journeys in the TARDIS in the annuals and short trips, then being so shocked by the fact the TARDIS has moved by Ark in Space. [[User:SarahJaneFan|SarahJaneFan]] [[User talk:SarahJaneFan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:59, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
== Dumb Waiter placement ==
Okay so, I’ve listened to [[AUDIO]]: ''[[Dumb Waiter (audio story)|Dumb Waiter]]'' twice in the past few days and have not picked up on the supposed reference to Leela calling the Doctor “the evil one” that is currently noted down on the timeline.
Does anyone know when this reference is made in the story or has listened to it before and noticed the line?
Because if that specific reference isn’t actually in there (although I don’t know why it would be on the page if it wasn’t?) then I believe the story would be far more appropriately placed between ''The Robots of Death'' and ''The Talons of Weng-Chiang''. As although Leela is explicitly stated not to have been travelling with the Doctor long, it also doesn’t seem as though she has only just joined the Doctor. [[User:SarahJaneFan|SarahJaneFan]] [[User talk:SarahJaneFan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
== Doctor Who Discovers ==
It's been ages since I've listened to The Kingmaker (hence why I'm unsure and bringing up in the Talk article for you all to decide on), but if the Doctor is working on the fictitious 'Doctor Who Discovers Historical Mysteries' book early on in his lifetime while working with UNIT, then surely the non-fictitious ''Discovers ''books should be popped up there, instead of after his travels with Leela? [[User:MalkHeartsStories|MalkHeartsStories]] [[User talk:MalkHeartsStories|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
: I think it got placed there due to being released after ''The Invasion of Time''. [[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:19, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 08:19, 15 August 2022

Timeline all over the place[[edit source]]

The chronology here has been placed rather inaccurately. In DWM 168, Doctor Who Magazine showed how all their Fourth Doctor comic stories and short stories fit into the television chronology. Note that this was before there were any Virgin Missing Adventures, BBC Past Doctor Adventures, Big Finish Doctor Who audio stories, Nest Cottage audios, or Short Trips stories. However, going by what DWM themselves say, the Timeline is as follows:

That is the way that Doctor Who Magazine themselves placed their Fourth Doctor comic stories. Of course, all the later audios, novels, short stories and later Fourth Doctor comics can be placed into that timeline as well, but this article needs to go by what DWM stated. 197.88.62.248talk to me 20:02, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

A Full Life[[edit source]]

A Full Life doesn't take place before Warrior's Gate. It's in a different timeline - if anything, it would be after, since Adric lives a long time in it. Placing it chronologically before Warrior's Gate is just incorrect. There's nothing wrong with having sections for aborted timelines. We don't have a limited number of subsections, and it's important to the accuracy of a timeline page to explain what happens in what timeline. And yes, it is important to specify that it takes place in E-Space, because it helps with dating it. BananaClownMan, if there's anyone who puts too much information on here it's you - filling all of these pages with unnecessary recaps that belong on the pages for the actual stories. Fwhiffahder ☎ 00:41, October 4, 2016 (UTC)

“Harry’s Return”[[edit source]]

I’m not entirely sure why we have a section for a couple of stories where Harry supposedly returns to the TARDIS after his initial departure.

The fact that there’s a note at the beginning and end of the sub-section saying “Harry rejoins/leaves” only furthers my doubts about the necessity for this to exist as it’s clear that no story actually establishes that Harry’s rejoins at any point, I don’t see why the stories can’t go between Robot and The Ark in Space, much like the other annual stories and short trips involving Harry.

Unless of course there’s some kind of continuity issue I’m not aware of currently, but from what research I have done, I couldn’t find anything that would suggest the stories had to come later.

SarahJaneFan ☎ 17:41, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

The main (and by "main" I mostly mean "sole") reason those entries are there falls under two reasonings: release dates and the Doctor's outfit. The annual stories where released alongside Season 13, which was the season which Harry left. Publication wise, the only explanation is that Harry rejoined for a while after he left, since there was no gap between Revenge of the Cybermen and Terror of the Zygons at the time. Another reason is the Doctor's outfit; in these entries, he's wearing his Season 13 outfit. Then again, it could be possible for them to fit between Revenge of the Cybermen and Terror of the Zygons, if we lead with the assumption it took the Doctor and co. a lot longer than initial thought to get to Scotland.BananaClownMan ☎ 02:59, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

I did some more research on the annual Stories (I realised that these annuals come as special features with some of the classic DVDs) and had a look myself. I’m really not convinced that it is actually the Season 13 costume which appears in that annual. What he wears is often obscured and never consistent, not to mention the unreliability of the artwork in these annuals. However, I also came to the conclusion that there’s no way that Ark in Space isn’t Harry’s first trip in the TARDIS, so although I would have liked to place all of those annual stories and short trips before The Ark in Space, I believe they’d all be better placed sometime after The Android Invasion, with the Doctor returning to work for UNIT, while still taking side trips with Sarah, and having Harry accompany them occasionally. SarahJaneFan ☎ 09:55, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

Aye, that could also work. I mean, upon further inspection, while Death Flower does have Sarah-Jane say she's still getting use to the new face, the Doctor does make reference to "[shaving] each day", so some time has passed since Robot, a couple of days for the Doctor at least.BananaClownMan ☎ 11:25, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

I’d argue that there could be wriggle room between Robot and Ark in Space for the Doctor and Sarah Jane, if we assume that the trip at the end of Robot was unsuccessful, but for Harry I can’t see him having several journeys in the TARDIS in the annuals and short trips, then being so shocked by the fact the TARDIS has moved by Ark in Space. SarahJaneFan ☎ 11:59, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

Dumb Waiter placement[[edit source]]

Okay so, I’ve listened to AUDIO: Dumb Waiter twice in the past few days and have not picked up on the supposed reference to Leela calling the Doctor “the evil one” that is currently noted down on the timeline.

Does anyone know when this reference is made in the story or has listened to it before and noticed the line?

Because if that specific reference isn’t actually in there (although I don’t know why it would be on the page if it wasn’t?) then I believe the story would be far more appropriately placed between The Robots of Death and The Talons of Weng-Chiang. As although Leela is explicitly stated not to have been travelling with the Doctor long, it also doesn’t seem as though she has only just joined the Doctor. SarahJaneFan ☎ 12:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Doctor Who Discovers[[edit source]]

It's been ages since I've listened to The Kingmaker (hence why I'm unsure and bringing up in the Talk article for you all to decide on), but if the Doctor is working on the fictitious 'Doctor Who Discovers Historical Mysteries' book early on in his lifetime while working with UNIT, then surely the non-fictitious Discovers books should be popped up there, instead of after his travels with Leela? MalkHeartsStories ☎ 22:44, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

I think it got placed there due to being released after The Invasion of Time. BananaClownMan ☎ 08:19, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
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