User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-197.83.246.23-20200731095332

How can this wiki say a variety of characters are all "'the Monk"?

First, I am NOT saying that "the Monk is the Master". I use the Master here as examples.

So, this wiki has separate pages for The Master, Man with the Rosette, Stream (The Hollows of Time) and The War King. The explanation is that "this wiki uses narrative not authorial intent". Nobody can possibly deny that "The man with the rosette", "Professor Stream" and "the War King" were all intended to be the Master", but this wiki has ruled that there is insufficient narrative to combine them into a single article.

And, to the issue at hand..."The Monk". First, obviously Peter Butterworth clearly played the exact same character in two television serials The Time Meddler (TV story) and The Daleks' Master Plan (TV story).

But then the problems start.

First up, a character only ever identified as the Time Meddler appears in 4-Dimensional Vistas (comic story). Undoubtedly intent was that he be the same character as the character Butterworth played onscreen. But there is NOTHING in the narrative of this comic to link him as the same character. Seriously, watch the two serials, then read the comic. Nada. it's all intent.

Then, a character called "the Meddling Monk" appears in Follow That TARDIS! (comic story). Again intent is clear. But again, apart from the fact that "the meddling monk" was the name of an individual episode of a tv serial, NOTHING. This could be said to be a third character.

Next up, a character called "Mortimus" appears in No Future (novel), and... the only way we 'know' who "Mortimus" is is by...authorial intent. There is nothing to directly link him to any character that ever appeared in Doctor Who before. His backstory is certainly very different to any character that ever appeared in Doctor Who before No Future (novel).

Another(?) "Mortimus" makes an appearance in Divided Loyalties (novel). But, you may say, TWO Time Lords both called "Mortimus"..must be the same guy. However this wiki has two separate pages for The War Chief and Magnus (Flashback). And this wiki's policy is that even though we know that the War Chief was a friend of the Doctor's from the Academy who used the name "Magnus" while at the Academy...we can't combine the friend of the Doctor's from the Academy called "Magnus" into one article. And there is nothing apart from the fact that there are two Time Lords both called "Mortimus". One explicitly knew the Doctor from the Academy, the other explicitly did not. And the No Future (novel) Mortimus was stranded on an ice planet which motivated an entire Virgin New Adventures arc, something which never happened to the Divided Loyalties (novel) Mortimus. Oh, and there is nothing in-narrative that links either Mortimus to the character from The Time Meddler (TV story) and The Daleks' Master Plan (TV story). Next up, Big Finish Productions gave us two incarnations of a Time Lord called "the Meddling Monk". There was a Time Lord called "the Meddling Monk" in Follow That TARDIS! (comic story), which would mean that that could be the same character, except if Magnus(The War Chief) and Magnus (Flashback) can't be the same character despite having the same name, and both being friends at the Academy with the Doctor, then what narrative material to say that the Meddling Monk from Follow That TARDIS! (comic story) is the same Big Finish Meddling Monk? And, of course, the biography/backstory of Big Finish's Meddling Monk is completely contradictory to the character from The Time Meddler (TV story) and The Daleks' Master Plan (TV story). And, it is established in both The Book of Kells (audio story) and The Black Hole (audio story), that the Doctor and Big Finish's Meddling Monk never knew each other on Gallifrey. Whereas, in The Rani Elite (audio story), the Doctor speaks of his friend "Mortimus" from the Academy. Which means that "Mortimus from the Academy" and "the Meddling Monk" are two separate Time Lords.

So, if we have separate The War Chief and Magnus (Flashback) articles, and if this article uses narrative not authorial intent, then WHERE IS THE NARRATIVE to link 5 or 6 separate characters? 1) The character Peter Butterworth played in The Time Meddler (TV story) and The Daleks' Master Plan (TV story). 2) The Time Meddler in 4-Dimensional Vistas (comic story) 3) Mortimus from No Future (novel) 4) Another Mortimus in Divided Loyalties (novel) 5) The Meddling Monk in The Book of Kells (audio story) et el. 6) The Meddling Monk from Follow That TARDIS! (comic story). (Maybe the same character as #5).

Again, authorial intent was that this was one character. But the same is true of The Master, Stream (The Hollows of Time), The War King and Man with the Rosette. Authorial intent was that the War King, Stream and the Man with the Rosette were all the Master. But, depsite authorial intent, there is insufficient in-narrative to link them.

So, where is the in-narrative to link "the monk", "the Time Meddler", "Mortimus"(who was friends with the Doctor at the Academy),"Mortimus"(who never knew the Doctor on Gallifrey" and "The Meddling Monk" into one singular "the Monk" page?

And if the Doctor had two friends at the Academy on Gallifrey both called "Magnus"(The War Chief and Magnus (Flashback)), then why can't there be two "Meddling Monks" as well? Where is Follow That TARDIS! (comic story) referenced in any Big Finish story?

Certainly, if nothing else, there is nothing to link the character from 4-Dimensional Vistas (comic story) to any other character from any other story. And The Rani Elite (audio story) and The Black Hole (audio story) make it explicit that "Mortimus from the Academy" and "the Meddling Monk" are two separate characters.