Forum:Temporary forums/Lists of Appearances: Difference between revisions

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 {{retitle|{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}
+{{archive}}[[Category:Design changers|{{SUBPAGENAME}}]]
 == Proposal ==
-It's been a longstanding issue that, contrary to expectations, many lists of appearances fail to list some of the character's licensed appearances! Thank you @[[User:Epsilon the Eternal|Epsilon the Eternal]] for inviting me to write the opening post for his proposed fix: '''include invalid sources on lists of appearances.''' For instance, add David Tennant's performance in ''[[Attack of the Graske (video game)|Attack of the Graske]]'' to [[Tenth Doctor - list of appearances]], where (quite frankly) it belongs.
+It's been a longstanding issue that, contrary to expectations, many lists of appearances fail to list some of the character's licensed appearances! Thank you @[[User:Epsilon the Eternal|Epsilon the Eternal]] for inviting me to write the opening post for his proposed fix: '''include invalid sources on lists of appearances.''' For instance, add David Tennant's performance in ''[[Attack of the Graske (video game)|Attack of the Graske]]'' to [[Tenth Doctor/Appearances|Tenth Doctor - list of appearances]], where (quite frankly) it belongs.
 Please see [[/Martha Jones - list of appearances/]] for 2 options regarding implementation:
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 If anything, I think implementing this idea will make working on lists of appearances (and hey… maybe even credits pages?) a lot easier. [[User:Liria10|Liria10]] [[User talk:Liria10|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:03, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
+I support this proposal and I love how Option 1 looks, so much more like a proper list - full of useful info. [[User:Dmitriy Volfson|Dmitriy Volfson]] [[User talk:Dmitriy Volfson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:55, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
+I'm in support of invalid appearances being on these pages and I'm also in support of converting the lists to tables. The ability to sort by release date is something sorely lacking in the current set-up. My preference is for Option 1 as I don't believe the average reader should be bothered about the often arbitrary distinctions between valid and invalid which have arisen on the Wiki, with ''Legacy'' and ''Lost in Time'' being the prime examples on Martha's page. That said, I'd prefer either of the two options to what we currently have and I would not object if it is instead Option 2 which is eventually implemented. [[User:Borisashton|Borisashton]] [[User talk:Borisashton|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:01, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
+I am also in support of this. I also prefer option 1 as a story's validity probably isn't all that important to more casual readers, I'd think. [[User:Time God Eon|Time God Eon]] [[User talk:Time God Eon|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:48, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 === Oppose ===
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 Regarding the remaining columns, I think the case for keeping "Release date" is obvious per the above, and "Medium" and "Series" are required simply to replicate the current list of appearances format. I also like "Author", which is useful in many cases – for instance, when a character or a specific character arc was sculpted by a specific author – but admittedly it's the next most marginal case … besides "Validity", that is, which like [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] and [[User:Epsilon the Eternal|Epsilon]] I continue to believe would be misleading to audiences regarding what "validity" means, just as [[User:Schreibenheimer|Schreibenheimer]] demonstrated above. In short, I hope the removal of "Publisher" will be sufficient to address these concerns. – [[User:NateBumber|n8]] ([[User talk:NateBumber|☎]])
-[[Category:Temporary forums]]
+:One other comment that I feel should be made is that I'm not a fan of combining these two proposals into one thread. Aside from both concerning the same pages, the question of whether we should include invalid stories on these pages has no policy relation to the question of whether these pages should be in list or table format. [[User:Schreibenheimer|Schreibenheimer]] [[User talk:Schreibenheimer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:18, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
+::It’s quicker and it’s easier that way. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::Quicker, perhaps, but is it really easier to debate two separate issues at the same time? [[User:Schreibenheimer|Schreibenheimer]] [[User talk:Schreibenheimer|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:14, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
+== Conclusion ==
+<div class="tech">
+This thread has now passed its 3 week deadline. However, it has not yet been closed. There does seem to be some consensus here, though, and I don't want this to get lost with this thread being closed as unresolved. Therefore, while I haven't had time to close this yesterday or this morning, I will write out a closing post later today. In the meantime, I'm going to lock this thread as it is effectively finished. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
+: Overall, the inclusion of invalid stories in lists of appearance is wildly supported by everyone who contributed to this thread. Therefore, '''invalid appearance are now allowed on lists of appearances'''. Moreover, as proposed in the opening post, '''rule 3-failing (e.g. unreleased/unproduced) stories may now be added to lists of appearences as a separate section below the main list'''. Now onto the propposed new table format. Overall, there was consensus to implement this format in some way or other. Therefore, '''the [[/Martha Jones - list of appearances|table-based format for lists of appearences]] may now be implemented on pages'''. When creating new lists of appearences, please create them with this new format. Moreover, lists currently presented as bulleted lists should be transfered to the new format. However, there were a few smaller issues of contention around this new format which I will now address:
+* Firstly, whether or not to differentiate invalid appearances. A quick count of people's support for option 1 and 2 gave me 8 editors supportive of option 1 (not differentiating validity) compared to just 5 for option 2 (having a column to differentiate validity). Therefore, '''option 1 - the validity of stories not being indicated in appearance tables - should be used'''.
+* Secondly, whether the current examples include too many columns. Personally, I find the idea that, even if the table does extend off the edge of the screen on mobile, as long as the information currently included in these lists is furthest left, mobile readers will still be able to obtain all of the same information they currently can, arguably with less scrolling, very convincing. For this purpose, '''the following columns should be used in the order presented:'''
+{| class="wikitable"
+! Title || Medium || Series || Author || Release Date
+|}
+* Just as in [[User:NateBumber|N8]]'s amendment, the series column may contain the publisher where relevant (see [[/Martha Jones - list of appearances|his example]] for examples of this).
+: I think that's everything. Please remember to include all of the sortable functionality of these tables when implementing them on pages. If you're unsure how to do this, copy and paste the source wikitext of N8's example and then adapt it. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:37, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
+</div>

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