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 == Proposal ==
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 ::: Otherwise, I don't think I have much to contribute, and I just generally agree with all else that has been said. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 22:42, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
-:::There's a transphobic slur used in ''[[Horror of Glam Rock (audio story)|Horror of Glam Rock]]'', and Magrs later apologized for including it. [[User:Pluto2|Pluto2]][[User talk:Pluto2|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:02, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
+::::There's a transphobic slur used in ''[[Horror of Glam Rock (audio story)|Horror of Glam Rock]]'', and Magrs later apologized for including it. [[User:Pluto2|Pluto2]][[User talk:Pluto2|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:02, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
+I don't think [[Straight]] should be treated as a derogatory term. And I do support both splitting [[Queer]] into two pages and the creation of a general [[Transphobia]] page. I will refrain from taking any sort of stance on the rest of it. I'm afraid that I am too ill informed on the subject of racism and it's history beyond the surface level to feel comfortable getting involved in that discussion.  [[User:Time God Eon|Time God Eon]] [[User talk:Time God Eon|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:23, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
+: I'm going to be honest here, I really don't follow this notion of splitting "Queer" into two pages. I don't think there are two distinct meanings here, not to a stark enough degree to warrant two pages. "Queer" as used by homophobes doesn't have a ''different meaning'' from the word as used by queer people and allies; it's just that people who use it as an insult deem ''the concept itself'' to be inherently contemptible. If I get called queer with malicious intent, I'm going to retort "yes I am, and I don't care what you think about that"; not "how dare you call me that. But coincidentally my identity is a homonym for the slur you just used". I'm not sure of the right way to go about this, but treating derogatory and non-derogatory usages as though they were different words altogether really doesn't seem correct.
+: (By way of comparison, an antisemite might snarl out "Jew" with as much venom as any racial slur you'd care to name, but that doesn't make "Jew-as-slur" a distinct word! That's not how this works! It's just the same word being used by someone who hates the people whose identity is described, one way or the other, by that word.) [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 18:00, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
+:: You make a good point there, I think I'm going to change my stance on that. [[User:Time God Eon|Time God Eon]] [[User talk:Time God Eon|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:10, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
+::: It's interesting that you bring this up, and as a queer Jewish woman I'd like to put my two cents in. Antisemites actually do tend to use "Jew-as-slur" as a distinct word, particularly in the context of using it as a verb. But such usages should be covered at [[Anti-Semitism]] (I'd argue that that page should be moved to [[antisemitism]] as organizations like the ADL prefer that rendering, by the way). So yes, I would actually be in favor of making the distinction in that case as well because antisemites have additional forms of usage for the word that a Jewish person will literally never use. [[User:Pluto2|Pluto2]][[User talk:Pluto2|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:16, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
+:::: I'm with Pluto on this one. I think there is a distinction. I do think it's worth pointing out that splitting the concept would make for a less confusing page, as I do think [[Queer|our page on the word]] is a bit of a mess. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 18:22, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
+:: I'm not saying there is literally no distinction, just that it's — to get all fancy and semiotic — ''connotative'' rather than ''denotative''. Our page could usefully be restructured to better distinguish positive and derogatory instances, but if we're going to have the page at all, I just don't think it would be accurate to the history of the term to treat it as a completely different word from prior derogatory usage. (And as for the — as far as the DWU is concerned, hypothetical — antisemitism example, as Pluto said, the subtleties are best covered on the bespoke page; but even before the current effort to resort to this situation more often, I just don’t think [[Jew (slur)]] would have been the right way to approach he problem.) [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 18:32, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
+Not familiar with most of these, so I can’t really do much commenting here. I do know though, that calling me, for example, straight is not derogatory towards me. I am straight. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t feel belittled by that. At all. That’s really all I can say. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:38, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
+:I support everything this OP proposes (and am quite shocked by the volume of derogatory words /slurs in that category). Additionally, I support the general idea of moving '''all''' slurs onto their associated prejudice page. [[Ladyboy]] raises an anomalous case, as we don't have a page for [[transphobia]], but I'd elect we just create one, even if it is in mild breach of [[T:NO RW]] (unless it has had a mention, and just doesn't have a page for some reason...?), although I can understand why people may not want an RW breach. [[User:Cousin Ettolrhc|Cousin Ettolrhc]] [[User talk:Cousin Ettolrhc|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:53, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
+::Just to reinvigorate discussion, potentially, before I nod off, let me just note, Etty, that there used to be far more slurs, including, well, ''the'' slur. Most of them were deleted on one of the last threads in the old forums. The ones that remain are the ones that were potentially complicated and not clear cut.
+::Speaking of which, I actually think my reasoning, and a lot of our reasoning, for thinking "straight" should be moved out of the category is incorrect. It was placed there as a synonym for "square", not for "heterosexual". (EG: "straight-laced", which ''I think'' has the same etymology as the term we currently use, but it's a markedly different usage.) I'm actually no longer convinced we should remove it, but I ''do'' think we might want to split the page. (Though as with Queer it might be a connotation/denotation thing and we might not. Complicated issue.) [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
+: If memory serves, the etymologies are actually not really related, except in a very tangential way. "Straight" for heterosexual actually started as a term meaning a formerly-actively-gay person who attempted to go back to a heterosexual lifestyle anyway — ''going straight'', in exactly the same image as a criminal "going straight" (i.e. "going back to the straight-and-narrow", etc.). "Sraight-laced", meanwhile, is a corruption of "''strait''-laced", i.e. "tightly-laced", alluding to a corset or bodice. Some vague notion of "straight = proper, lawful" influenced by the same "straight and narrow" image as the heterosexual synonym is probably behind the common misspelling, of course. But to cut a long story short, I definitely think the terms are fundamentally different enough to warrant different pages, in a way which isn't the case for "queer-as-in-derogatorily-LGBTQ" vs. "queer-as-in-positively-LGBTQ". [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 12:54, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
+::So we're about halfway done with our time on this one. Does anyone have thoughts on the issues we've still got some disagreement on? I believe these are:
+::*Splitting Queer.
+::*Removing straight from the derogatory terms category or splitting the page.
+::*"Transphobia" and how best to handle transphobic slurs if the specific term hasn't been used in the DWU.
+::*Uncle Tom and whether it's best served on its own page or on [[Racism]].
+::I think there's broad agreement on everything else, if I'm reading the thread right. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
+On a different note, it's worth noting that the term "coolie" is also used in the [[The War Machines (novelisation)|novelisation of ''The War Machines'']] - while Ben is thinking about the mind controlled warehouse workers, he compares them to "coolies a hundred years ago" or something. Not sure how to cover that one. The Target novelizations have fairly frequent dated uses of racial terms used in a seemingly neutral way, like "Oriental" or "Negro", that we need to address because these would definitely be thought of as slurs if used today. [[User:Pluto2|Pluto2]][[User talk:Pluto2|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:50, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
+::To come back and get into the remaining points of contention:
+::*Splitting Queer & Handling Straight - it's already been pretty much covered by Pluto, that yes I am effectively taking it from a perspective that the two meanings applied are at such opposition that it would be a ''incredibly rare'' circumstance where we should have two separate pages for the term. And I'd be willing to see a split on Straight in similar manner, given what's been brought up here.
+::*"Transphobia" and how best to handle transphobic slurs if the specific term hasn't been used in the DWU. - I've checked ''Doctor Who: Redacted''s transcripts and there is no direct naming of transphobia there. Mentions that made in a manner of implicit concern about that ("Is your gym trans friendly?"), but none outright name it. I am not sure about other sources, or to what degree we can bend T:NO RW on this one. Though to quote from it:
+::: "When real-world elements '''are alluded to in a DWU source, but go unnamed,''' we do sometimes use real-world information to derive a conjecture page title [...] However, this only applies to page names: the in-universe text of the page itself, including the lead, should not employ the conjectural real-world name."
+:::Which would suggest to me on reading that we could create a page named Transphobia, provided we are careful about the wording of contents. (Which I suppose we could easily come to compromise by omitting further direct naming of Transphobia in the article contents until a Behind the Scenes note at the bottom.)
+::*Uncle Tom and whether it's best served on its own page or on [[Racism]]. - In light of further discussions, I am willing to leave this one alone for now & we could perhaps revisit it in some future time on its own Talk page if there is any strong feelings regarding removal of it.
+[[User:JDPManjoume|JDPManjoume]] [[User talk:JDPManjoume|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:31, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
+:: PS - To address Pluto's point about Target novelisations and the language used therein, since I missed it out... "coolie" would be a hard one to place without an exact context to place it within. (If Ben isn't using it in such a manner, then we're stuck in the trap that a page could be made, but with no in-universe linkage to be made there... and for that, we'd have to note the real-world connotations in a BtS note, I'd say. Of course, those such cases wouldn't be getting added to this cate. anyway, and would be their own discussion. ''The Empty Planet'' comes to mind for that: with Clyde using the phrase "honest Injun" - which in reality though an innocently-meant phrase in 2000s usage, actually uses a slur for Native Americans.)
+:: As for the other two, I would say that the latter was already ruled out of existence as a separate page in the last Slurs thread - so that's a case of 'any further usages should be notated in the Racism page, with context.' and the former is likely something we can also apply that same approach to, given other slurs related to South and East Asians that we've already previously ruled out of existence and into consolidation with context at the Racism page.
+[[User:JDPManjoume|JDPManjoume]] [[User talk:JDPManjoume|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:39, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
+== Conclusion ==
+<div class="tech">
+This thread never got quite as big as we might have hoped for, but the deadline has arrived, and I do think there's a reasonable amount of consensus, so we can resolve this, at least for now, instead of writing it all off as unresolved.
+In broad terms, '''we seem to have consensus on the proposal of merging the remaining slur pages listed in the OP by [[User:JDPManjoume]] into overviews of the forms of prejudice they relate to''', e.g. ''[[Blackamoor]]'' into ''[[Racism]]''. The original page-name can then of course be retained as a redirect. This redirect should only ever be linked to in direct quotes from the source text (e.g. ''[[Ben Jackson]] compared the mind-controlled workers to "[[coolie]]s"''), never used in plain language.
+There was a lot of discussion about [[Queer]]. I'm not sure there's a full consensus on whether to view it as one word with two connotations, or somehow two different words. But fortunately, we don't actually have to choose, as such. In light with the wider decision, we wouldn't ''have'' a [[Queer (slur)]] page at all: we'd just discuss it at [[Homophobia]] and [[Transphobia]] (or even at [[Queerphobia]] if we ever have cause to create a page like that). So, we can refocus the existing [[Queer]] page on its use as an identity, listing derogatory uses in a separate, more compact section that points the reader to [[Homophobia]] and [[Transphobia]] to learn more. In turn, those two pages would document derogatory uses of the word in more detail while making it clear that it also exists as a neutral or positive term.
+[[Transphobia]] should definitely be created using a {{tlx|conjecture}} template to justify the name. The lede could read something like "'''Prejudice against [[transgender]] people''' was a pervasive issue in the early [[21st century]]…", making it clear that we don't have a source for the word, although "transphobic" and "transphobia" could then be used in the text of the page later on for the sake of ease of expression.
+The [[Uncle Tom]] case is complicated. Really, it's a fictional character that people are compared to, not a "derogatory term", so I'm not actually sure it belongs in [[:Category:Derogatory names and insults from the real world]] in the first place. It could be discussed, at least in the ''Behind the scenes'' section, at [[Racism]], and the page's ''own'' BTS section should definitely explain context and connotations on its own ''Behind the scenes'' section. But for now I think it had best keep its own page. As [[User:JDPManjoume]] noted, we can revisit that question on [[Talk:Uncle Tom]] if there turn out to be people who feel strongly about it and haven't chimed in on this thread. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:57, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
+</div>