Talk:The Brenda and Effie Mysteries (series): Difference between revisions

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Najawin

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 ::::So were, for instance, a lot of dead rows in a table with no clear connection or a fourth audio that had no clear connection. I did an incredibly quick trim, feel free to add stuff back. But there was obviously stuff that needed to go. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:37, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 :::::Again, isn't that a bit pedantic, to have some of the stories from an anthology to be included on a table, but not others, even if their connection to the DWU isn't apparent? If we're going to have the table, why not include all the stories on it? <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><tt>Epsilon</tt></span>]]''' '''[[doctor who:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 02:41, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
+Did our policy on this change? Some stuff has been added that doesn't have clear ties to the DWU listed (past, well, the fact that the series probably should be validated anyhow). [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:53, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
+: Which stuff are you meaning? [[User:DrWHOCorrieFan|DrWHOCorrieFan]] [[User talk:DrWHOCorrieFan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:56, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
+::Stuff in the audio section, at least one of the anthology stories, (When the original decision was made it didn't seem like authors would count as "connective tissue", so perhaps more than just one) some stories from ''generic'' anthologies are now listed as opposed to just ones the wiki covers. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:06, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 == New evidence? ==
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 :: If it doesn't matter to you there was little point on commenting, but it matters to some others like myself so we could perhaps prepare our case/even start sandbox pages for when (if!) forums do return. [[User:DrWHOCorrieFan|DrWHOCorrieFan]] [[User talk:DrWHOCorrieFan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:15, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
+:::Er, it doesn't matter in the sense that we still can't revalidate it. Not in the sense that I don't care. I'm not the Magrs guy on the wiki, that's Epsilon, but my understanding of the situation is that it probably should be valid. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
+:::: Issue is, is that the core concepts for ''The Brenda and Effie Mysteries'' debuted in the [https://magrsverse.miraheze.org/wiki/Never_the_Bride_(audio_story) ''Never the Bride'' audio story] from 1998, making a lot of concepts debut outside the DWU, ''a la'' the ''Phoenix Court'' series. But I recommend going to the [https://magrsverse.miraheze.org/wiki/ Magrsverse Wiki] if you want to edit ''TBaEM'' stories; we're in dire need of more editors. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 22:25, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
+== Validity? ==
+Umm... Why were these books invalidated? [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]]  14:22, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+: Long story short, a long time ago a bunch of editors who never read the books decided they didn't have any licensed elements in them bar an appearance of [[Panda]] in a later book so it couldn't be covered, which they would've realised was completely incorrect if they had just, funnily enough, read the books.
+: So now ''we're'' lumbered with doing a new inclusion debate to fix the previous one. {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 14:30, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+::Ha! Shall I start a debate in [[Forum:Inclusion debates|Inclusion debates]]? [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]]  14:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+:::I'd hold off on that. A: You have to have read a book to start an inclusion debate. B: Last time we discussed it Epsilon compared it to ''[[Phoenix Court (series)|Phoenix Court]]'' iirc, which means there are some... nuances. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+:::: Aye, we have to contend with the 1999 audio drama version of ''[https://magrsverse.miraheze.org/wiki/Never_the_Bride_%28audio_story%29 Never the Bride]'' which gets into the whole ''Phoenix Court'' pickle. {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 17:52, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+:::::Ah yes, good point. I'll get round to reading them when I've got the time (which probably means in a couple of months, I'm insanely busy at the moment). But we surely wouldn't be covering them due to featuring Brenda and Effie themselves, but due to featuring the elements introduced in Mad Dogs and Englishmen? [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]]  19:21, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+No, the issue is more complicated than that. There's explicit precedent that ''Phoenix Court'' doesn't count as a DWU series even with DWU elements in it. Since this series ''began'' before Magrs started working in the DWU by current rules it is, well, "grandfathered out", in a sense, and they're to be treated as different literary universes that cross over. See [[Thread:208795]] at [[User:SOTO/Forum Archive/Inclusion debates 1]]. Is this good precedent? Eh. But it's something we have to discuss before we can validate this series. We could maybe argue for R4bp, but this doesn't seem like quite what R4bp was intended for, and that would also touch on the ''Phoenix Court'' issue. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:47, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+:: I don't fully follow. Certainly we would cover a new ''Phoenix Court'' novel that included non-Iris DWU elements without controversy, I should think. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 20:09, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
+:::I certainly think we ''should''. (And tbh, given Magrs I think it likely that people would just ignore the prior thread given clear R4 intent.) That thread was decided before B4 of Phoenix Court came out, did that include elements other than Iris? [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)