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Forum:Reworking our biological taxonomy system (view source)
Revision as of 18:19, 25 October 2023
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{{ | {{archive}}[[Category:Category issues]][[Category:Policy changers]] | ||
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: The dictionary definition of creatures is simply "an animal, as distinct from a human being", so the use of the word here to cover non-sapient beings ''sort of'' holds up, but as Scrooge mentioned in the original thread, has also been used to refer to some obviously sapient beings. I therefore propose a rename to '''[[:Category:Non-sapient species]]''', as this is a much clearer description which still fulfils the desired purpose. | : The dictionary definition of creatures is simply "an animal, as distinct from a human being", so the use of the word here to cover non-sapient beings ''sort of'' holds up, but as Scrooge mentioned in the original thread, has also been used to refer to some obviously sapient beings. I therefore propose a rename to '''[[:Category:Non-sapient species]]''', as this is a much clearer description which still fulfils the desired purpose. | ||
* '''[[:Category:Sentient organic life]]''' - no description given. | * '''[[:Category:Sentient organic life]]''' - no description given. | ||
: This is a strange category, as it holds both individuals and species, is nested within [[:Category:Species by biology]] and inexplicably discounts | : This is a strange category, as it holds both individuals and species, is nested within [[:Category:Species by biology]] and inexplicably discounts sapient [[silicon]]-based life or similar. I propose '''its outright deletion''', making sure the individuals are placed within subcategories of [[:Category:Individuals]], and the species within the proposed [[:Category:Sapient species]]'''. | ||
So with that sorted, here is what a category tree would look like, with pre-existing and new subcategories fitting within. | So with that sorted, here is what a category tree would look like, with pre-existing and new subcategories fitting within. | ||
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::* '''[[:Category:Crystalline species]]''' - Ditto | ::* '''[[:Category:Crystalline species]]''' - Ditto | ||
::* '''[[:Category:Gaseous species]]''' - Ditto | ::* '''[[:Category:Gaseous species]]''' - Ditto | ||
::* '''[[:Category: Bacterial species]]''' - Perhaps nested in [[:Category:Microorganisms]]. I'm unsure if there have been any | ::* '''[[:Category: Bacterial species]]''' - Perhaps nested in [[:Category:Microorganisms]]. I'm unsure if there have been any sapient microbes in ''Doctor Who'' fiction, but it seems likely. | ||
::* '''[[:Category: Viral species]]''' - Ditto, ideally avoiding the debate of whether they can be defined as "lifeforms"; they can certainly be defined as species. | ::* '''[[:Category: Viral species]]''' - Ditto, ideally avoiding the debate of whether they can be defined as "lifeforms"; they can certainly be defined as species. | ||
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* With the remaining subcategories, this category should be renamed to '''[[:Category:Species by trait]]''', which is more specific to categories such as [[:Category:Parasitic species]] and [[:Category:Binary-sex species]]. [[:Category:Species by ability]] is also inexact, and should be merged into this new category, while [[:Category:Species by appearance]] should be placed within it. | * With the remaining subcategories, this category should be renamed to '''[[:Category:Species by trait]]''', which is more specific to categories such as [[:Category:Parasitic species]] and [[:Category:Binary-sex species]]. [[:Category:Species by ability]] is also inexact, and should be merged into this new category, while [[:Category:Species by appearance]] should be placed within it. | ||
'''To summarise''': I propose that 1. [[:Category:Species]] is opened up to non- | '''To summarise''': I propose that 1. [[:Category:Species]] is opened up to non-sapient lifeforms, 2. The creation/conversion of categories which house sapient and non-sapient lifeforms, 3. [[:Category:Sentient organic life]]'s deletion. 4. the deconvolution of [[:Category:Species by biology]]. | ||
[[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:48, 2 August 2023 (UTC) | [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:48, 2 August 2023 (UTC) | ||
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::: I think I was thrown by the definition of a [[Conceptual entity|conceptual entities]] as "a being or weapon (sometimes both)", but I wasn't sure, so I was wanting to get the opinion of those more knowledgeable on the subject. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC) | ::: I think I was thrown by the definition of a [[Conceptual entity|conceptual entities]] as "a being or weapon (sometimes both)", but I wasn't sure, so I was wanting to get the opinion of those more knowledgeable on the subject. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC) | ||
::::At the very least Gargoyles, Celestis, Shifts and Anarchitects are all beings(ish), iirc, and those are the four in the category. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:41, 2 August 2023 (UTC) | |||
:::::Yes, I'll grant you that. But you can see how future category members might not conform to higher sets. This is a minor point though and probably uncontroversial-enough to be solved off-forum, if it ever becomes an issue. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:14, 2 August 2023 (UTC) | |||
::Fully support this proposed restructure. And I'd like to put it on record that I support Conceptual Beings' Rights! (Yes, put it in [[: Category:Lifeforms]]). [[User:Cousin Ettolrhc|Cousin Ettolrahc]] [[User talk:Cousin Ettolrhc|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:33, 3 August 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Conclusion == | |||
On the whole, this thread was non-controversial. As such, the proposal as put forward by [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] passes. On the issue of [[conceptual entity|conceptual entities]], [[:Category:Conceptual entities]] should go in [[:Category:Lifeforms]] as consensus seems to lean this way. Having read the previous thread, I think switching to "sapient" instead of "sentient" was a good idea. The [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sapient Cambridge Dictionary gives one of the definitions of "sapient"] as "intelligent; able to think" and I think that this sums up the category's purpose well. One small thing not bought up here is that [[:Category:Creatures]] (which will now be [[:Category:Non-sapient species]]) is defined as "Unintelligent creatures that do not exist in the real world". I'm ruling that the "that do not exist in the real world" bit should be removed as this does not seem to be how the category is now intended to be used. If anyone would like to discuss this further, please do so at [[Forum talk:Reworking our biological taxonomy system]]. Any other issues may also be bought up there. | |||
I'm going to leave the actual implementation of these changes to anyone who's up for it. For renaming categories with (say) more than 10 members, I can assisit [[User:Botgo50|<span style="font-family:Rubik,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif!important;">via bot</span>]] from Friday. Thanks to those who particpated. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:44, 24 October 2023 (UTC) | |||