Forum:Decoupling Help from Community Central: Difference between revisions

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 ::: This is a great idea, but yeah, the "from scratch" part will be a lot of effort. Seems like something to add to the to-do list, so to speak, while keeping the Community Central redirects in the meantime. – [[User:NateBumber|n8]] ([[User talk:NateBumber|☎]]) 21:03, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
+::::Seems reasonable. Perhaps as an ongoing project we either keep this thread open and keep adding sections where we discuss specific Help pages or open up a Help page to rewrite every 2-4 weeks. Or just play it by ear. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:42, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
+::::: I like this idea. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:45, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
+Well, if we're doing this, should we just start on rewriting [[T:FAITH]]? It's one we tend to reference a fair bit. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 07:31, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
+: That seems like a good place to start. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:54, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
+::I support this, tbh I'm still a little annoyed that all those help pages got nuked. Over the years there was a lot of effort put into making everything as helpful as it could be (I know we missed the mark a lot of the time however). I think given our unique take on things there needs to be specific to this wiki help pages. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 06:33, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
+'''Information''': Help pages at Tardis which have same title as the ones at Community Central can be accessed by adding <code>?redirect=no</code> to the end of the url, like [https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Magic_words?redirect=no this link]. The history can be accessed by adding <code>?redirect=no&action=history</code>, like [https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Magic_words?redirect=no&action=history this]. [[User:胡大夫|胡大夫]] [[User talk:胡大夫|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:22, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
+====T:FAITH Rewrite====
+(Feel free to comment or even edit as you see fit, this is a work in progress and fully collaborative.)
+This wiki, like most others, is a community based, collaborative enterprise. As such, it's imperative to trust that others have the best interests of the project in mind, no matter what disagreements result. This is even a [[w:c:community:Help:Assuming good faith|Fandom level guideline]]. But there are some specific nuances appropriate to our individual wiki that make our guidance slightly different than the general one.
+First and foremost, we're a large wiki, and an old one. We have over 100k pages as of writing, and are one of the first 100 Fandom wikis, created in late 2004. We have a whole host of operating procedures that apply to formatting pages or working with infoboxes or what have you that were decided through informal discussion at some point, or even just tradition. [[T:BOUND|These '''''are''''' considered policy]] until a discussion changes them, but because of this it's very easy for older users to forget that people might not be aware of these procedures, or for newer users to think that people are making up rules. Please be mindful of the fact that this particular subject can easily cause tension, and that everyone involved is making decisions that seem rational from their perspective.
+Secondly, we have a very robust [[Forum:The Cloisters|Forum System]], as people can [[T:CHANGE|change our policies]] through discussion. But as a result of this, discussion can often get heated, as conflicting personalities, ideological differences, or even just bad days come to a head. It's important in discussions to [[T:NPA|attack the point, not the person]], and to assume that others are using the Forum System in good faith as well. If someone says that you misunderstood their comment, believe them. Extend to other people's comments, and to comments in our [[Forum:Forum Archives|Archives]], {{w|Principle of charity|charity}} when reading them. Often confrontation can be defused by polite comments or taking a short break.
+Thirdly, try to assume that other people are following this principle to the best of their ability. You may gently remind someone of it if the situation has clearly gotten heated, but just as you should assume others are acting in good faith, you should interpret comments other people make in such a way that they are assuming you are acting in good faith as well whenever possible.
+Fourthly, don't attack administrators or bureaucrats for giving you an answer you don't like. You may politely disagree and explain why, but at the end of the day try to understand that they're doing the best they can. This is a hard job that takes up a lot of their time, and none of them get paid for it.
+Finally, if you repeatedly try to assume good faith in multiple interactions with an individual and continuously are unable to do so - if they keep acting in ways where it's impossible to for you to engage with them constructively, disengage and bring the matter up with an [[admin]]. Again, it's appropriate to gently remind someone of our collective responsibility to behave in a good faith manner and to assume others are acting in good faith - failing this happens to the best of us, but it's not your job to confront someone when you believe they are acting with intentional malice. Let admins make this determination and do your best to focus on other areas where you can be constructive in the meantime.
+: I would change "all" to "most" in the first sentance and I definetly would include something about talking to an admin at the end. Good otherwise [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:33, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
+<div class="tech">
+:The 30-day mark of this thread has passed, but after reviewing it, I find that it's worth extending it. '''The basic proposal passes''', but there is the probably-wise beginnings of using this thread to plan out the actual implementation, and I would see it expand, if possible; it seems more efficient than spreading out across talk pages. See you all in 30 days for another review. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 10:25, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
+</div>
+Should we just delete [[Help:Wikia IRC channels]] or reframe it to be about wiki affiliated social media generally? EG, the twitter, discord, r/DoctorWho r/Gallifrey, if we have a GB presence, maybe even mention Discussions there. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:59, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
+: I'm leaning on reframing (and renaming) it. This would require another thread of itself, but it might be worth setting up a proper, official, Discord server for the wiki at somepoint. For now, there's definetly another other stuff to talk about and we can mention the [[w:Discord|Fandom Discord server]]. Including Discussions seems like a good idea. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:32, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
+::Oh, I was just thinking about the generic DW one that's associated with, I think, idk, reddit? Don't use it. I just know there's a wiki editor role on it. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:37, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
+::: Oh, that. That is a casual, unofficial thing and the people who use it do not want it to to be linked officially to the wiki. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:53, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
+::::Ah. Well, I hear Discord is currently imploding, so might want to hold off on any changes regarding that. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:46, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
+::::: Is it? I use it very reguarly and cannot think of anything that could be described as it "imploding". [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:55, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
+:::::: I think Najawin is referring to reports of Discord being used for illegal activities. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 20:58, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
+I mean. That's been going on for years, sure. I just heard that the corporate side of things has been really rough recently. Similar to Twitter and Reddit, new management doing things that older people don't think is a good idea. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:49, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
+: Oh yeah, that's been happening, but it's not as bad as Twitter and Reddit in my opinion. The platform is still useable. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:15, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
+I've seen [[T:FAITH]] be linked quite a lot recently so I think it would be a good idea to get that page up and running. Would everyone be happy to copy over the draft as presented above? [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:33, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
+:We might want to make sure that [[Forum:Forum Archives]] is linked to whatever our final home for that is going to be. iirc it was moving around a bit when I wrote it. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:16, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
+:: I'm almost entirely certain that [[Forum:Forum Archives]] will be the archive's final home. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:01, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
+:::It might be a good idea to push that draft live, it's definitely been relevant quite a bit. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:18, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
+Oh wow, this is '''''REALLY''''' relevant now, isn't it? Lots of fires. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:09, 26 February 2024 (UTC)