Talk:Clara Oswald: Difference between revisions
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== Separate articles for splinters == | |||
Okay so, I've been told that the decision to keep the info about Clara's splinters on a single page was made some time ago, not long after ''The Name of the Doctor''{{'}}s premier. | |||
But a few things have changed since then. In light of our recently changed policy about splitting Time Lord pages by incarnation, as well as the 2014 introduction of another Clara splinter (Winnie Clarence from ''Blood & Ice''), I believe Clara's splinters should, indeed, be split off into their own pages. | |||
Now, obviously doing pages for ''every single'' Clara that appears in the TBotD montage, or the ones on that one ''Blood & Ice'' page would be super impractical, which is why I suggest only giving the big three their pages. So; [[Oswin Oswald (Asylum of the Daleks)]], [[Clara Oswin Oswald (The Snowmen)]], [[Winnie Clarence (Blood & Ice)]]. | |||
As for the other splinters, they could go on a single page like [[Clara Oswald's splinters]]. [[User:WaltK|WaltK]] [[User talk:WaltK|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:01, 21 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I feel that this idea makes perfect sense and would like to show my support. These splinters are near-enough separate characters, at least as much as, say, [[Shadow People (Extremis)|Shadow World replicas of characters]], who recieve separate pages. [[User:Bongolium500|Bongo50 (aka Bongolium500)]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::: [[ | :: I completely agree with this proposal. Notable Clara splinters should get their own pages and "cameo" splinters getting collated on one page. | ||
:: Only issues I have is the dabs; I feel like these are primary topics enough to not get dabs. The other thing is that a few Clara splinters appear in ''[[The Doctor: His Lives and Times]]'' which I feel should get their own pages but aren't as important as the aforementioned splinters. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 21:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
I | ::: I also support this idea. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:15, 22 July 2021 (UTC) | ||
:::: I mean… it's not even a question of primary topics, is it? We don't currently know of any other DWU individuals named [[Oswin Oswald]] or [[Winnie Clarence]] than those splinters. There ''is'' no question of dabbing to be head. (Before anyone asks, this even applies to [[Clara Oswin Oswald]]. Despite a popular fandom misconception perpetuated by archiveofourown.org's tagging system, Oswin is ''not'' the prime Clara's middle name, that is extremely explict in ''[[The Bells of Saint John (TV story)|The Bells of Saint John]]''.) | |||
:::: Either way, not made up my mind on the specifics yet, but this seems basically reasonable as a proposal. The dialogue in ''[[The Name of the Doctor (TV story)|The Name of the Doctor]]'' does lean towards the splinters being in some metaphysical sense their own persons (River's "But they won't be ''you''. You, the real ''you'', will ''die''" comes to mind). And more importantly, ''[[Blood & Ice (comic story)|Blood & Ice]]'') is entirely rooted in hammering the point home that Winnie is not Clara and is leading her own life. We don't cover all [[Cwej (species)|Cwejen]] on [[Chris Cwej]], which seems like a good precedent. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::: This ruling comes from an exceptional circumstance where it overrules a Forum decision before our Forums are officially brought back. When I saw this discussion was restarted, I noticed that the original ruling of merging Clara's articles were made a whole month ''before'' ''[[The Name of the Doctor (TV story)|The Name of the Doctor]]''. Even on the closing post, [[User:Tangerineduel]] made it explicit that the matter of separate pages were only to be revisited '''after''' the end of Clara's arc, although that didn't quite happen. | |||
::::: Under this understanding, added to our now ever-stablishing precedent of having separate pages for different incarnations of Time Lords (while Clara ''isn't'' a Time Lord, and these aren't "incarnations", it is only logical to draw a parallel here). Community consensus is clear that this process only improves our coverage of content both upon editing, and reading. More than that, another strong argument for separate pages comes from "multi Time Lord events", where an incarnation of said Time Lord meets themselves in another incarnation. For Clara, this also applies, as the "main" Clara Oswald meets [[Winnie Clarence|one of her splinters]] in ''[[Blood and Ice (comic story)|Blood and Ice]]''. | |||
::::: [[User:WaltK]]'s proposal is hereby approved. [[Oswin Oswald]], [[Clara Oswin Oswald]] and [[Winnie Clarence]]. "Blink-and-you-miss" cameos present at the end of ''The Name of the Doctor'' and ''Blood and Ice'' echoes are, truly, more than enough covered under a single page called [[Clara Oswald's splinter]]s, which can also discuss the nature of the splinters itself. Should any further echoes of Clara appear in a story as more than aforementioned "quick cameos", they too can have a separate page. [[User:OncomingStorm12th|OncomingStorm12th]] [[User talk:OncomingStorm12th|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:53, 25 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
Reviving this topic because, all these years later, my opinion on the "page for every single Clara splinter" thing has changed. I believe it can easily be done by numbering. The individual Clara’s in the TNotD montage are quite easy to define. The Clara on Gallifrey who talks to the First Doctor would be [[Clara Oswald splinter 1 (The Name of the Doctor)]] and so on. The same can potentially be done with the Clara’s on that one page of ''Blood and Ice''. [[User:WaltK|WaltK]] [[User talk:WaltK|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:34, 8 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I | :: That it ''could'' be done is one thing, but I'm uncertain that it would be useful. This feels adjacent to how we handle other-reality counterparts. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 00:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC) | ||
: | ::: Agreed, these are splinters we know so little about that I'm not entirely sure what their articles could say beyond "they shouted for the Nth Doctor during X". We know even less about the ones seen in ''Blood and Ice''. [[User:BlueSupergiant|BlueSupergiant]] [[User talk:BlueSupergiant|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC) | ||
Latest revision as of 02:23, 13 March 2024
Separate articles for splinters[[edit source]]
Okay so, I've been told that the decision to keep the info about Clara's splinters on a single page was made some time ago, not long after The Name of the Doctor's premier.
But a few things have changed since then. In light of our recently changed policy about splitting Time Lord pages by incarnation, as well as the 2014 introduction of another Clara splinter (Winnie Clarence from Blood & Ice), I believe Clara's splinters should, indeed, be split off into their own pages.
Now, obviously doing pages for every single Clara that appears in the TBotD montage, or the ones on that one Blood & Ice page would be super impractical, which is why I suggest only giving the big three their pages. So; Oswin Oswald (Asylum of the Daleks), Clara Oswin Oswald (The Snowmen), Winnie Clarence (Blood & Ice).
As for the other splinters, they could go on a single page like Clara Oswald's splinters. WaltK ☎ 21:01, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
- I feel that this idea makes perfect sense and would like to show my support. These splinters are near-enough separate characters, at least as much as, say, Shadow World replicas of characters, who recieve separate pages. Bongo50 (aka Bongolium500) ☎ 21:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
- I completely agree with this proposal. Notable Clara splinters should get their own pages and "cameo" splinters getting collated on one page.
- Only issues I have is the dabs; I feel like these are primary topics enough to not get dabs. The other thing is that a few Clara splinters appear in The Doctor: His Lives and Times which I feel should get their own pages but aren't as important as the aforementioned splinters. 21:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
- I also support this idea. LauraBatham ☎ 02:15, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- I mean… it's not even a question of primary topics, is it? We don't currently know of any other DWU individuals named Oswin Oswald or Winnie Clarence than those splinters. There is no question of dabbing to be head. (Before anyone asks, this even applies to Clara Oswin Oswald. Despite a popular fandom misconception perpetuated by archiveofourown.org's tagging system, Oswin is not the prime Clara's middle name, that is extremely explict in The Bells of Saint John.)
- Either way, not made up my mind on the specifics yet, but this seems basically reasonable as a proposal. The dialogue in The Name of the Doctor does lean towards the splinters being in some metaphysical sense their own persons (River's "But they won't be you. You, the real you, will die" comes to mind). And more importantly, Blood & Ice) is entirely rooted in hammering the point home that Winnie is not Clara and is leading her own life. We don't cover all Cwejen on Chris Cwej, which seems like a good precedent. Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 02:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
- This ruling comes from an exceptional circumstance where it overrules a Forum decision before our Forums are officially brought back. When I saw this discussion was restarted, I noticed that the original ruling of merging Clara's articles were made a whole month before The Name of the Doctor. Even on the closing post, User:Tangerineduel made it explicit that the matter of separate pages were only to be revisited after the end of Clara's arc, although that didn't quite happen.
- Under this understanding, added to our now ever-stablishing precedent of having separate pages for different incarnations of Time Lords (while Clara isn't a Time Lord, and these aren't "incarnations", it is only logical to draw a parallel here). Community consensus is clear that this process only improves our coverage of content both upon editing, and reading. More than that, another strong argument for separate pages comes from "multi Time Lord events", where an incarnation of said Time Lord meets themselves in another incarnation. For Clara, this also applies, as the "main" Clara Oswald meets one of her splinters in Blood and Ice.
- User:WaltK's proposal is hereby approved. Oswin Oswald, Clara Oswin Oswald and Winnie Clarence. "Blink-and-you-miss" cameos present at the end of The Name of the Doctor and Blood and Ice echoes are, truly, more than enough covered under a single page called Clara Oswald's splinters, which can also discuss the nature of the splinters itself. Should any further echoes of Clara appear in a story as more than aforementioned "quick cameos", they too can have a separate page. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 15:53, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Reviving this topic because, all these years later, my opinion on the "page for every single Clara splinter" thing has changed. I believe it can easily be done by numbering. The individual Clara’s in the TNotD montage are quite easy to define. The Clara on Gallifrey who talks to the First Doctor would be Clara Oswald splinter 1 (The Name of the Doctor) and so on. The same can potentially be done with the Clara’s on that one page of Blood and Ice. WaltK ☎ 00:34, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- That it could be done is one thing, but I'm uncertain that it would be useful. This feels adjacent to how we handle other-reality counterparts. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 00:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed, these are splinters we know so little about that I'm not entirely sure what their articles could say beyond "they shouted for the Nth Doctor during X". We know even less about the ones seen in Blood and Ice. BlueSupergiant ☎ 00:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
