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{{ | {{Archive|Panopticon archives}}[[Category:Policy changers]] | ||
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We've had a number of discussions on whether the navigation boxes housed in [[:category:Aliens Navigation templates]] should stay or go. They've persisted, it seems to me, because none of the preceding discussions were concluded. As I switch over navboxes to their new and more flexible format, I'm stumped as to whether I should do the work on converting these templates, because opposition to them in the various threads seems to have been reasonably high. It's an awful lot of work to do if we, as a community, don't even ''want'' the boxes in the first place. | We've had a number of discussions on whether the navigation boxes housed in [[:category:Aliens Navigation templates]] should stay or go. They've persisted, it seems to me, because none of the preceding discussions were concluded. As I switch over navboxes to their new and more flexible format, I'm stumped as to whether I should do the work on converting these templates, because opposition to them in the various threads seems to have been reasonably high. It's an awful lot of work to do if we, as a community, don't even ''want'' the boxes in the first place. | ||
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I think that some of the objections raised in these threads have been answered by the new format allowed by {{tl|navbox}}. One major bone of contention in the previous thread was where the navbox was to be placed. I had argued for a placement under the infobox, but this new template neatly stows things above the category strip. Fine. That issue is settled. TD had hated, as do I, the bulkiness of a number of different navboxes on top of each other. That also has been solved by the new navbox system, since multiple navboxes can now be nested inside a single container. (See [[Sarah Jane Smith]] for an example of this in action.) | I think that some of the objections raised in these threads have been answered by the new format allowed by {{tl|navbox}}. One major bone of contention in the previous thread was where the navbox was to be placed. I had argued for a placement under the infobox, but this new template neatly stows things above the category strip. Fine. That issue is settled. TD had hated, as do I, the bulkiness of a number of different navboxes on top of each other. That also has been solved by the new navbox system, since multiple navboxes can now be nested inside a single container. (See [[Sarah Jane Smith]] for an example of this in action.) | ||
What remains, then, are three central questions. And, as we've already had a ton of discussion about this, it's time to have a clearer vote on these issues. Thus the questions are asked in a series of polls. These polls will remain open for one week from today, at which time the aliens and enemies templates will either be revamped in the new format, or redirected to a blank template, which will neatly make them disappear from all pages. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | What remains, then, are three central questions. And, as we've already had a ton of discussion about this, it's time to have a clearer vote on these issues. Thus the questions are asked in a series of polls. These polls will remain open for one week from today, at which time the aliens and enemies templates will either be revamped in the new format, or redirected to a blank template, which will neatly make them disappear from all pages. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}'''15:33:33 Tue '''29 Mar 2011 </span> | ||
<div id="tech" style="text-align:left"><span style="text-align:center; color:red;font-size:200%;line-height:150%;">'''This poll is now closed. However, you can still help shape policy by contributing to the implementation discussion, below.</span> | <div id="tech" style="text-align:left"><span style="text-align:center; color:red;font-size:200%;line-height:150%;">'''This poll is now closed. However, you can still help shape policy by contributing to the implementation discussion, below.</span> | ||
Examine the following navbox: | Examine the following navbox: | ||
<poll> | <poll> | ||
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I think they should be kept in principle but modified somewhat. Splitting them into separate aliens and enemies would probably solve the problem since they're a bit overfilled and unwieldy at the moments. Otherwise, concentrate on the main villains/races rather than listing every henchman or minor species. [[User:Skteosk|Skteosk]] 14:24, March 31, 2011 (UTC) | I think they should be kept in principle but modified somewhat. Splitting them into separate aliens and enemies would probably solve the problem since they're a bit overfilled and unwieldy at the moments. Otherwise, concentrate on the main villains/races rather than listing every henchman or minor species. [[User:Skteosk|Skteosk]] 14:24, March 31, 2011 (UTC) | ||
:Just a point of clarification here. Splitting into two templates will mean that the total area on the page will be increased. Two templates, when fully opened, will cover more vertical space than one combined template. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | :Just a point of clarification here. Splitting into two templates will mean that the total area on the page will be increased. Two templates, when fully opened, will cover more vertical space than one combined template. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}'''21:22:33 Sat '''02 Apr 2011 </span> | ||
I might be missing something here in the discussion but when I make a distinction between the terms 'aliens' and 'enemies' I tend to think of them as (alien to human) 'species' and 'individually-named' enemies. [[User:The Librarian|The Librarian]] 14:58, March 31, 2011 (UTC) | I might be missing something here in the discussion but when I make a distinction between the terms 'aliens' and 'enemies' I tend to think of them as (alien to human) 'species' and 'individually-named' enemies. [[User:The Librarian|The Librarian]] 14:58, March 31, 2011 (UTC) | ||
Keep the navboxes, but divide into enemies and non-humans it will make it more understandable and the problem will be solved. [[User:The mysterious|The mysterious]] 13:22, April 2, 2011 (UTC) | Keep the navboxes, but divide into enemies and non-humans it will make it more understandable and the problem will be solved. [[User:The mysterious|The mysterious]] 13:22, April 2, 2011 (UTC) | ||
:Just a question about this thought, though. If we divided into "non-humans" as you say, won't we then logically have to put [[Time Lord]] in ''every'' single story, except ''[[Mission to the Unknown]]''? Or won't we have to put "Alzarian" in every story featuring Adric? {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | :Just a question about this thought, though. If we divided into "non-humans" as you say, won't we then logically have to put [[Time Lord]] in ''every'' single story, except ''[[Mission to the Unknown]]''? Or won't we have to put "Alzarian" in every story featuring Adric? {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}'''20:23:30 Sat '''02 Apr 2011 </span> | ||
How about instead of "Non-human" it was "Non-terrestrial". I think, to sort this all out, we need to look at it from say (this will make me sound stupid) the Time Lord's point of view. I mean, to them, we are alien (non-terrestrial) and they are terrestrial. I was just looking at [[User:The Librarian|The Librarian's]] last comment, and that helped me a bit. Enemies are not nessecerally aliens, so that sort of covers both Aliens and Enemies. I know that somewhere that's already been mentioned and an admin has come up with a negative result, but isn't it time we do the rational and easy solution. There are other things on this wiki that need doing. --[[User:Ghastly9090|Ghastly9090]] 12:42, April 3, 2011 (UTC) | How about instead of "Non-human" it was "Non-terrestrial". I think, to sort this all out, we need to look at it from say (this will make me sound stupid) the Time Lord's point of view. I mean, to them, we are alien (non-terrestrial) and they are terrestrial. I was just looking at [[User:The Librarian|The Librarian's]] last comment, and that helped me a bit. Enemies are not nessecerally aliens, so that sort of covers both Aliens and Enemies. I know that somewhere that's already been mentioned and an admin has come up with a negative result, but isn't it time we do the rational and easy solution. There are other things on this wiki that need doing. --[[User:Ghastly9090|Ghastly9090]] 12:42, April 3, 2011 (UTC) | ||
::Well, I'm afraid that other users don't appear to see a "rational and easy solution" the same as you do. For instance, from my point of view, as the person who will probably end up actually implementing the results of the vote, the "rational and easy solution" is to redirect all these damned things to a blank template and thereby instantly remove them from the wiki. That's 15 minutes of work, versus the hours and indeed possibly days of work involved in moving these navboxes to the new format. But that's ''my'' view. The point of this final vote is just to end the discussion that's been going on for about a year so that we can, as you say, get onto "other things". {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | ::Well, I'm afraid that other users don't appear to see a "rational and easy solution" the same as you do. For instance, from my point of view, as the person who will probably end up actually implementing the results of the vote, the "rational and easy solution" is to redirect all these damned things to a blank template and thereby instantly remove them from the wiki. That's 15 minutes of work, versus the hours and indeed possibly days of work involved in moving these navboxes to the new format. But that's ''my'' view. The point of this final vote is just to end the discussion that's been going on for about a year so that we can, as you say, get onto "other things". {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}'''21:17:01 Sun '''03 Apr 2011 </span> | ||
==Closing vote== | ==Closing vote== | ||
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* Voters confirmed by a 2:1 margin (15:7) they wanted to keep the navboxes. '''Thus we shall keep them.''' | * Voters confirmed by a 2:1 margin (15:7) they wanted to keep the navboxes. '''Thus we shall keep them.''' | ||
* Voters expressed a clear desire to divide into two navboxes, one for aliens and one for enemies. (5:15:2:0) '''Thus it is so ordered.''' | * Voters expressed a clear desire to divide into two navboxes, one for aliens and one for enemies. (5:15:2:0) '''Thus it is so ordered.''' | ||
* Voters expressed a desire to consider an alien as anyone who is not human. (11:4). In this instance, I'm siding with the minority, because the majority clearly haven't thought this through. The titular character is a non-human. At various points, the companions have been non-human. It would be nonsensical to put "Alzarians and Trakenites" in the aliens section of ''Black Orchid''. Or to put "Time Lord" down for ''Planet of Giants''. Thus, '''aliens are people who aren't the same species as the Doctor and/or companions.''' The only stories for which [[Time Lord]]s and/or the species of companions can be listed in an alien box is when there are more than our regular cast in the story. Thus, it's fine to list Alzarians in ''Full Circle'', or Time Lords in ''The War Games''. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | * Voters expressed a desire to consider an alien as anyone who is not human. (11:4). In this instance, I'm siding with the minority, because the majority clearly haven't thought this through. The titular character is a non-human. At various points, the companions have been non-human. It would be nonsensical to put "Alzarians and Trakenites" in the aliens section of ''Black Orchid''. Or to put "Time Lord" down for ''Planet of Giants''. Thus, '''aliens are people who aren't the same species as the Doctor and/or companions.''' The only stories for which [[Time Lord]]s and/or the species of companions can be listed in an alien box is when there are more than our regular cast in the story. Thus, it's fine to list Alzarians in ''Full Circle'', or Time Lords in ''The War Games''. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}'''14:20:29 Tue '''05 Apr 2011 </span> | ||
==Implementation== | ==Implementation== | ||
I created [[User:Skittles the hog/Sandbox two|a selection of navboxes]] to illustrate three different versions of this box. I'm not sure if this is what people had in mind. Feel free to modify them if not.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 13:39, April 3, 2011 (UTC) | I created [[User:Skittles the hog/Sandbox two|a selection of navboxes]] to illustrate three different versions of this box. I'm not sure if this is what people had in mind. Feel free to modify them if not.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 13:39, April 3, 2011 (UTC) | ||
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{{navbox | {{navbox | ||
|name=Series 1 enemies | |name=Series 1 enemies | ||
|title = [[Series 1 (Doctor Who)|Aliens of Series 1]] | |title = [[Series 1 (Doctor Who 2005)|Aliens of Series 1]] | ||
|group1 = ''[[Rose (TV story)|Rose]]'' | |group1 = ''[[Rose (TV story)|Rose]]'' | ||
|list1 = [[Nestene Consciousness]] | |list1 = [[Nestene Consciousness]] | ||
|group2 = ''[[The End of the World]]'' | |group2 = ''[[The End of the World (TV story)|The End of the World]]'' | ||
|list2 = [[Forest of Cheem]] • [[Surgeon]]s • [[Crespallion ( | |list2 = [[Forest of Cheem]] • [[Surgeon]]s • [[Crespallion (species)|Crespallion]]s • [[Boekind]] • [[Moxx of Balhoon]] • [[Ambassadors from the City State of Binding Light]] • [[Pacoo|Mr and Mrs Pacoo]] • [[Hop Pyleen]] • [[Cal MacNannovich]] • [[Scholars of the University of Rago Rago 56 Rago]] | ||
|group3 = ''[[The Unquiet Dead]]'' | |group3 = ''[[The Unquiet Dead]]'' | ||
|list3 = [[Gelth]] | |list3 = [[Gelth]] | ||
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|group6 = ''[[The Long Game]]'' | |group6 = ''[[The Long Game]]'' | ||
|list6 = [[Mighty Jagrafess of the Holy Hadrojassic Maxarodenfoe]] | |list6 = [[Mighty Jagrafess of the Holy Hadrojassic Maxarodenfoe]] | ||
|group7 = ''[[Father's Day]]'' | |group7 = ''[[Father's Day (TV story)|Father's Day]]'' | ||
|list7 = [[Reaper]]s | |list7 = [[Reaper]]s | ||
|group8 = ''[[Boom Town]]'' | |group8 = ''[[Boom Town]]'' | ||
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{{navbox | {{navbox | ||
|name=Series 1 enemies | |name=Series 1 enemies | ||
|title = [[Series 1 (Doctor Who)|Enemies of Series 1]] | |title = [[Series 1 (Doctor Who 2005)|Enemies of Series 1]] | ||
|group1 = ''[[Rose (TV story)|Rose]]'' | |group1 = ''[[Rose (TV story)|Rose]]'' | ||
|list1 = [[Nestene Consciousness]] • [[Auton]]s ([[Mickey Smith (Auton)|Auton Mickey Smith]]) | |list1 = [[Nestene Consciousness]] • [[Auton]]s ([[Mickey Smith (Auton)|Auton Mickey Smith]]) | ||
|group2 = ''[[The End of the World]]'' | |group2 = ''[[The End of the World (TV story)|The End of the World]]'' | ||
|list2 = [[Cassandra O'Brien.Δ17]] • [[Adherents of the Repeated Meme]] • [[Metal spider]]s • [[Surgeon]]s | |list2 = [[Cassandra O'Brien.Δ17]] • [[Adherents of the Repeated Meme]] • [[Metal spider]]s • [[Surgeon]]s | ||
|group3 = ''[[The Unquiet Dead]]'' | |group3 = ''[[The Unquiet Dead]]'' | ||
|list3 = [[Gelth]] ([[Gelth | |list3 = [[Gelth]] ([[Gelth ambassador]]) | ||
|group4 = ''[[Aliens of London]]''<br>''[[World War Three]]'' | |group4 = ''[[Aliens of London]]''<br>''[[World War Three]]'' | ||
|list4 = [[Slitheen family]] ([[Blon Fel-Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen]] • [[Jocrassa Fel-Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen]] • [[Sip Fel-Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen]]) | |list4 = [[Slitheen family]] ([[Blon Fel-Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen]] • [[Jocrassa Fel-Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen]] • [[Sip Fel-Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen]]) | ||
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|group6 = ''[[The Long Game]]'' | |group6 = ''[[The Long Game]]'' | ||
|list6 = [[Mighty Jagrafess of the Holy Hadrojassic Maxarodenfoe]] • [[The Editor]] | |list6 = [[Mighty Jagrafess of the Holy Hadrojassic Maxarodenfoe]] • [[The Editor]] | ||
|group7 = ''[[Father's Day]]'' | |group7 = ''[[Father's Day (TV story)|Father's Day]]'' | ||
|list7 = [[Reaper]]s | |list7 = [[Reaper]]s | ||
|group8 = ''[[The Empty Child]]''<br>''[[The Doctor Dances]]'' | |group8 = ''[[The Empty Child]]''<br>''[[The Doctor Dances]]'' | ||
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[[Dalek]] | [[Dalek]] | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
::Do the same for the enemies box. When you're done with your lists, lemme know, and I'll take care of the rest. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | ::Do the same for the enemies box. When you're done with your lists, lemme know, and I'll take care of the rest. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}'''14:52:24 Tue '''05 Apr 2011 </span> | ||
Yeah, Czech's species idea is quite good. This seems to fit better with the results of the vote.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 17:14, April 5, 2011 (UTC) | Yeah, Czech's species idea is quite good. This seems to fit better with the results of the vote.----[[User:Skittles the hog|Skittles the hog]]--<small>[[User talk:Skittles the hog|Talk]]</small> 17:14, April 5, 2011 (UTC) |