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:: Having a sentence and then like three entire lines of citations is unreadable, whether they are using cs or not. There's two things going on here - the over-citation and the cs issues. cs is fixed now so ''that's'' not a problem anymore, but the other thing ''is''. With all those citations it's essentially acting as a list of all the episodes in which the First Doctor does these things, which - I don't know - maybe there is some value in that. That's worth a discussion I think. But it really does need to be done in a seperate way coz otherwise you just can't read the section properly. [[User:Guyus24|Guyus24]] [[User talk:Guyus24|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | :: Having a sentence and then like three entire lines of citations is unreadable, whether they are using cs or not. There's two things going on here - the over-citation and the cs issues. cs is fixed now so ''that's'' not a problem anymore, but the other thing ''is''. With all those citations it's essentially acting as a list of all the episodes in which the First Doctor does these things, which - I don't know - maybe there is some value in that. That's worth a discussion I think. But it really does need to be done in a seperate way coz otherwise you just can't read the section properly. [[User:Guyus24|Guyus24]] [[User talk:Guyus24|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::: Sometimes it's easier to list episodes where the Doctor ''doesn't'' do a particular habit, or reference when someonelse mimics, comments or outright insults them for their quirks. [[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::: Aaaaaaaand… we’re back to the exact same problem. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::: As foe why they are mostly television centric, that is to stop the very over citing problem you are referencing | |||
::::: Soooooo they violate policy to avoid an issue? (Also, the bug has been fixed. But don't let that stop your cynicism.) [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: It's reasonable that citation for a fact shared by a large amounts of stories should, in most cases, be the first few stories to establish that fact — which in the case of a TV-originating character is going to tend to be his original TV era. For example, if I wanted to say "The First Doctor travelled in the TARDIS", I would cite that to "([[TV]]: {{cs|An Unearthly Child (TV story)}}, {{cs|The Daleks (TV story)}}, etc.)". I don't think this is in violation of T:NPOV; it's purely contextual. By no means should we end up with ''all-''TV in this section, though; surely there are points about the Doctor's personality which were first, or most clearly, established in non-TV sources. --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
The reason I copy/pasted examples into my original post above was to show just how awful excessive citing is - I'm used to reading long essays and prose, but those walls of text (complete with + symbols everywhere) would just instantly put me off. I also just felt like we didn't need to cite every example. What next, when we say "the Doctor used his sonic screwdriver" we need to cite every single individual example? Nah, just a small handful followed by "et al." is more than sufficient. — [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 17:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
: ("etc" until the conclusion of [[Forum:Etc. vs et al.]]) {{User:Aquanafrahudy/Sig}} 18:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: I agree with Fractal. Citing every single source for a thing that appears in 1000s of different sources is utterly stupid. That’s not debatable. It just is. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:32, 25 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Aquanafrahudy, fair enough. I meant that, just mixed the two up. Even though the cite bug is fixed, it's still way cleaner to limit the list of examples :) — [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 19:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC) |
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