User:Najawin/Sandbox 10: Difference between revisions

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===God I feel bad for anyone reading this at this point===
(Next step: Actually define the comic tree stuff, as in the WC stuff. Some of the branches have their own leaves.)
====The Web or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Deflationism====
==Wow, I should have gotten to this project sooner, but the fork gives me reason to return to it.==
Ah, The Web. I'm sure we've all thought about it. I know I have. Indeed, I thought about it for quite some time after the R4bp thread, in order to think about whether or not it might actually work for a satisfactory account of validity. I don't think it does, but there are some subtle issues here that we should discuss.
[[Forum:Temporary forums/Categories for stories without summaries]] established that this category tree should exist, and that it should look a specific way. However, generating the specific categories takes a bit of work because it requires figuring out where all our, say, PROSE works are, and making sure that we can figure out a relatively simple definition of a PROSE work using our category system. (Obviously we could start from the root [[:Category:Prose sources]] and work down to the leaves, but this is a monumental amount of work for the bot run and isn't guaranteed to be error free.)
===Category tree===
[[:Category:Missing summaries]]
:[[:Category:Missing plot summaries]]
:Clearly to be in this category the bot will need to detect that the "plot" section on whatever page is being tested says some variation of "To be added" or similar. (Perhaps if there both exists a plot section, and it is smaller than a certain length? We'd have to be careful about [[Vrs (short story)]] and a few others if we do that, but it's plausible.)
::[[:Category:Missing PROSE plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing AUDIO plot summaries]]
:::Generate subcategories based on "[[:Category:Audio stories by company]]", preserving subcategories within this structure. (So, eg, [[:Category:Big Finish audio stories plot summaries]], followed by [[:Category:BFBS audio stories plot summaries]])
::[[:Category:Missing COMIC plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing GASPS comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing Cutaway comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DAN comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Dalek Book comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Dalek Outer Space Book comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Dalek World comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWA comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing AAAGH! comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Alien Babies! comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Tenth Doctor DWA comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Eleventh Doctor DWA comic plot summaries]]‎
::::[[:Category:Missing Twelfth Doctor DWA comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWAN comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWBIT comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWM comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing DWM backup comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Four Hours of Doom's Day plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Cybermen plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Daft Dimension comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fourth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fifth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Sixth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Seventh Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Eighth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Ninth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Tenth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Eleventh Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Twelfth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Thirteenth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fourteenth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fifteenth Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Doctor Who? comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The History Tour comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Moments in Time comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Nix View comic plot summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Tales from the TARDIS comic plot summaries‎]]
::[[:Category:Missing DWS comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing FF comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Four Hours of Doom's Day plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Free-Fall Warriors plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing IDW comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW09 comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW11 comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW12 comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing IDW Doctor Who Annual comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing POT comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing IHP comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing It's Bigger on the Inside! comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing LP comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Polystyle comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing PHS comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TVA comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVA comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TVC comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fourth Doctor TVC comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing TVC Annual comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing RT comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing TIDH comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing Reprinted TIDH comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Titan comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 10D comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 10D backup comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 10D WLT comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 11D comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 11D backup comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 11D WLT comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 12D comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 12D backup comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 12D WLT comic plot summaries]]
:::[[‎:Category:Missing 13D comic plot summaries]]
:::[[‎:Category:Missing 3D comic plot summaries]]
:::[[‎:Category:Missing 7D comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 8D comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 9D comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 9D WLT comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 15D comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW20 comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing FCBD comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing FD backup comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TM comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TW comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing WeLoveTITANS plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 10D WLT comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 11D WLT comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 12D WLT comic plot summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 9D WLT comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing TV21 comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TV21 The Daleks comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Web-based comic plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing BBC Writers' Comics plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing The Forge comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Who's Where? comic plot summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing HOMEVID plot summaries]]
:::No subcategories, generated entirely from the HOMEVID cat defined below
::[[:Category:Missing WC plot summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing Arcbeatle WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Arcbeatle webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing BBCi WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:BBCi]], minus [[BBC Red Button]], and then the leaves of [[:Category:TARDIS Cam stories]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing BBV WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in[[:Category:BBV webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Big Finish WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Big Finish webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Doom's Day WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Doom's Day webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Lego Dimensions WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:LEGO Dimensions trailers‎]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Monster Files plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Monster Files stories‎]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing P.R.O.B.E. plot summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:P.R.O.B.E. webcasts‎]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing SJA WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from [[:Category:SJA webcasts‎]]'s leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
::::[[:Category:Missing Mr Smith's data updates‎ WC plot summaries]]
:::::Comes from [[:Category:Mr Smith's data updates‎‎]]'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing TLV WC plot summaries]]
::::Comes from [[:Category:TLV webcasts]]'s leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
::::[[:Category:Missing UNIT Field Log WC plot summaries]]
:::::Comes from [[:Category:UNIT Field Log webcasts‎]]'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
::[[:Category:Missing GAME plot summaries]]
:::Take the leaves from this category + the leaves from the subcategories of [[:Category:Video games by Doctor]]
::[[:Category:Missing NOTVALID plot summaries]]
:[[:Category:Missing publisher summaries]]
:Same as before, but for publisher summary.
::[[:Category:Missing PROSE publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing AUDIO publisher summaries]]
:::Generate subcategories based on "[[:Category:Audio stories by company]]", preserving subcategories within this structure. (So, eg, [[:Category:Big Finish audio stories plot summaries]], followed by [[:Category:BFBS audio stories plot summaries]])
::[[:Category:Missing COMIC publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing GASPS comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing Cutaway comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DAN comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Dalek Book comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Dalek Outer Space Book comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Dalek World comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWA comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing AAAGH! comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Alien Babies! comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Tenth Doctor DWA comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Eleventh Doctor DWA comic publisher summaries]]‎
::::[[:Category:Missing Twelfth Doctor DWA comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWAN comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWBIT comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DWM comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing DWM backup comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Four Hours of Doom's Day publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Cybermen publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The Daft Dimension comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fourth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fifth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Sixth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Seventh Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Eighth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Ninth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Tenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Eleventh Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Twelfth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Thirteenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fourteenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fifteenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Doctor Who? comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing The History Tour comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Moments in Time comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Nix View comic publisher summaries‎]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Tales from the TARDIS comic publisher summaries‎]]
::[[:Category:Missing DWS comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing FF comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Four Hours of Doom's Day publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Free-Fall Warriors publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing IDW comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW09 comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW11 comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW12 comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing IDW Doctor Who Annual comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing POT comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing IHP comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing It's Bigger on the Inside! comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing LP comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Polystyle comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing PHS comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TVA comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVA comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TVC comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing Fourth Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing TVC Annual comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries]]
:::::[[:Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing RT comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing TIDH comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing Reprinted TIDH comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Titan comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 10D comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 10D backup comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 10D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 11D comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 11D backup comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 11D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 12D comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 12D backup comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 12D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[‎:Category:Missing 13D comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[‎:Category:Missing 3D comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[‎:Category:Missing 7D comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 8D comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 9D comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 9D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing 15D comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing DW20 comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing FCBD comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing FD backup comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TM comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TW comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing WeLoveTITANS publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 10D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 11D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 12D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
::::[[:Category:Missing 9D WLT comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing TV21 comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing TV21 The Daleks comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Web-based comic publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing BBC Writers' Comics publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing The Forge comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing Who's Where? comic publisher summaries]]
::[[:Category:Missing HOMEVID publisher summaries]]
:::No subcategories, generated entirely from the HOMEVID cat defined below
::[[:Category:Missing WC publisher summaries]]
:::[[:Category:Missing Arcbeatle WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Arcbeatle webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing BBCi WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:BBCi]], minus [[BBC Red Button]], and then the leaves of [[:Category:TARDIS Cam stories]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing BBV WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:BBV webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Big Finish WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Big Finish webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Doom's Day WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Doom's Day webcasts]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Lego Dimensions WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:LEGO Dimensions trailers‎]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing Monster Files publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:Monster Files stories‎]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing P.R.O.B.E. publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from leaves in [[:Category:P.R.O.B.E. webcasts‎]] INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing SJA WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from [[:Category:SJA webcasts‎]]'s leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
::::[[:Category:Missing Mr Smith's data updates‎ WC publisher summaries]]
:::::Comes from [[:Category:Mr Smith's data updates‎‎]]'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
:::[[:Category:Missing TLV WC publisher summaries]]
::::Comes from [[:Category:TLV webcasts]]'s leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
::::[[:Category:Missing UNIT Field Log WC publisher summaries]]
:::::Comes from [[:Category:UNIT Field Log webcasts‎]]'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
::[[:Category:Missing GAME publisher summaries]]
:::Take the leaves from this category + the leaves from the subcategories of [[:Category:Video games by Doctor]]
::[[:Category:Missing NOTVALID publisher summaries]]


Firstly, is The Web Validity, or is it merely a tool we construct to help us talk about Validity? I think it's clear that The Web of Narrative Connections is clearly a useful tool - if it can be constructed - for any discussion of Validity, since individual authors should have their own views of the DWU in which a subset of their view of the DWU is roughly analogous to a subset of The Web. So it's useful even to someone who thinks that continuity shouldn't touch our validity rules at all, if only for how it impacts the views of others. Scrooge suggests it's the former.
====Transversal of tree====
:'''I think that by "intended to be set in the DWU", we mean "intended to be part of the Web"'''
(For reference, [[:Category:Sources]])
I think this position is... difficult to hold. First and foremost, what about a writer who simply doesn't want anyone to reference their work? A writer that is notoriously disagreeable? They actively discourage people from building off of their storylines whenever possible and try to insist that their work shouldn't loop back around to the rest of what other people are doing, but still write using DWU characters? It sounds almost familiar, if a bit too extreme, no? Is this hypothetical "Angry Harry" still writing for the DWU? Seems to be to me, even if they don't consider their work suitable for others to reference. How about a series that uses some DWU concepts in a completely disjoint way from how they've been used before, (maybe even says that it's "its own universe") perhaps there's some crossovers later on down the line, but there's no backwards narrative connections? (Okay, I'm teasing a bit there, it's not that extreme. But the basic principle applies. What if we take some DWU concepts, rip them free of their original context - you've even suggested that we could do this with an ''image'', a ''design'', to some extent - and then have them run forward in their original series, while they might in the future be fine referencing The Web.) Even if we accept something ''like'' The Web, what you're suggesting is too restrictive. But it needs to be this restrictive, because if not, if you allow these dead ends and false starts, then the way you've defined R4 doesn't quite work here.
Not sure if this will help the bot, but I'm specifying this just in case, our category tree is rather complicated, and it will also allow me to simplify my notation above.


Alright, now, next, and is it just me, or is this getting really dodgy? Like. Sure. We're dealing with natural language, not formal ones. But when we start trying to define a categorization scheme using the things we're supposed to be categorizing, I get very suspicious. This has historically been [https://qubd.github.io/files/TarskiUndefinability.pdf a losing play]. The insistence of Czech, Tangerine and others to base validity on solely OOU considerations is very well thought out in this regard.
NOTVALID = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Non-DWU sources->[[:Category:Non-DWU sources by medium]] (UNION of all subcategories)


And finally, and perhaps most importantly, I think the issue here is that this is just obviously wrong. The DWU ''as we mean it on this site'' is defined by [[T:VS|our validity policies]]. Our article on [[Doctor Who universe]] says as much. And these validity policies change over time. It's simply not the case that "Valid" = "part of The Web (not a dead end or false start)". Perhaps, perhaps, this is what it ''should come to mean'', in that we should use The Web as a guide to T:VS. But it doesn't mean that. The two terms are not synonymous, and I don't think it's clear that they even line up at the present time.
Novel = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->PROSE stories->Novels->[[:Category:Novels by year of release]] (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID


Now, nobody is saying The Web isn't important, just that it isn't synonymous with validity. Validity is merely what we make of it. Think of it like the legal/moral distinction. Perhaps we should base our laws off of morality. But [https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/legal-positivism/ legal positivists] don't think there's any inherent correlation between them, whereas [https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/natural-law-theories/ natural law theorists] insist the opposite - "an unjust law is no law at all". I think even if our validity rules didn't correspond to The Web at all, they would still reflect The DWU as this wiki understood it, since we've defined the term to refer to what we construct using [[T:VS]]. And I don't think this is a radical position, I think it's the most reasonable one given the plain fact that most people here have lived under a time where certain things we all wanted valid were ostensibly invalid.
Feature = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->PROSE stories->Features->[[:Category:Features by year of release]] (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID


Now enough of that, let me explain why The Web isn't important.
Short Story = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->PROSE stories->Short stories->[[:Category:Short stories by year of release]] (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID


Oh, I kid I kid, I jest I jape. It's useful. It's very useful. But I'd be wary to use it so closely as a guide to validity, even aside from the definitional concerns. It's a useful tool, but it should be something we temper with other factors. Why? Well, the same reasons that [[User:NoNotTheMemes]] alludes to. And, indeed, this is one of the reasons why I didn't try to offer a Grand Theory of Validity in my opening post. As someone with a copy of ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Quantum_Mechanics Sakurai and Napolitano]'' on my bookshelf not six feet away from me I feel it's my duty to warn Scrooge away from this path with such scant provisions and scant preparation. Avoid its siren song!
PROSE = Short Story UNION Novel UNION Feature


At least in addition to this massive web of continuity concerns, we need to think about how our readers will benefit from what we deem valid and invalid, rather than how our editors will. I know some people IRL who are massive Doctor Who fans, just massive. And they despise the wiki and consider it near unusable because it mixes together EU content and show content. I keep telling them that this will never change, that it's a foundational principle of our wiki that all sources are equal, but it really puts them off. And our decision validate all of these R4bp works, well... Some of them frustrated them more than others, but to them it just wasn't helpful, it obscured things more than made it clear. And I don't want to suggest that every reader is like this, but my suspicion is that a lot of them are. One of the earliest conversations on how to deal with validity, which I linked above, [[Forum:The original inclusion debates#Excluded]], suggested to use italics to demarcate EU vs tv content. And this clearly didn't happen in the long term, though it actually did happen here and there in the early days, people just didn't do it consistently and it fell out of favor. And people have suggested more updated versions since then, see [[Thread:129501]] at [[User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon II]]. I think there are multiple concerns we need to balance when it comes to validity, these are just the two most obvious. I'm sure, given time, that we can come up with more. Reducing it to one concern is... Misguided in the extreme in my mind. And I certainly wouldn't wish to beg the question against those who feel the need to weigh the scales more heavily towards curating content towards our readers than I do.
WC = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Webcasts->[[:Category:Webcasts by year of release]] (UNION Of all subcategories)


====Does T:CS work?====
Film = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->[[:Category:Theatrical films]] (UNION Of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID
Probably not as Scrooge has alluded to it.


Firstly, I want to rebut the idea that R1bp is incoherent or unclear as I've expressed it. I think this is untrue. I think R1bp is relatively coherent and clear, if a bit messy and in need of ''some'' tune-up. R3bp is definitely difficult to envision, but this is due to the lack of R3 jurisprudence in particular. Which, well, you contributed to Scrooge, so nyeh. (As I'm writing up the last section, I had a thought. Are Stage Plays generally thought to violate R3 alone? I think there's maybe a chance that one works out there then? But really it seems to me to be usually seen as an R1 issue.)
Tv = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Television stories->[[:Category:Television stories]] by airdate (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID


But can we so easily extricate R4 from the prior work done? Probably not. Certainly we couldn't this time last year - non-narrative fiction was invalid for failing R1 but still covered. We technically still haven't fully relitigated video games and that's an R1 issue. And I think this alone should give us pause. If this 3 step procedure Scrooge is talking about ''only holds'' when we've already reformed [[T:VS]] to be in line with <s>(what he thinks [[T:VS]] would look like after following this same 3 step procedure :P)</s> a version of it that reflects our preferences more heavily than those of past editors, and it simply fails to apply prior to that, well, doesn't that suggest that perhaps this analysis is perhaps too idealistic? It's describing what we wish to happen rather than what actually ''is'' happening? If there's no possible way to separate out R1 considerations from past versions of [[T:VS]], then I don't think it's the case than this is what covered and validity ''mean'', and that R4 is a ''separate stage in the procedure than the other rules''. At least, not as of yet! (And, by logical consequence, this means that the various RXbps still come tumbling down like rainfall. If it's all one policy, they're all there.)
TV=Film UNION Tv


And it's worse still, because I'm pretty sure we'll find something floating around that's not a "complete work of fiction" but is covered as invalid even after we fix video games and whatever else we're thinking of. Indeed, [[Forum:Deleted Scenes and Rule 4 By Proxy]] seems to suggest this outcome as a possibility.
GAME = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Real world video games->[[:Category:Video games by year of release]] (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID (nb: As far as I can tell the other groups can't consistently have plot summaries, they're just not the sorts of things where that makes sense, and almost always have the publisher summaries listed already. Personally I don't see the need for subcategories here for mediums, since the others should be effectively rounding errors. Also, in general I'm skeptical about doing this one by bot run, a lot of these aren't written in such a way that plot summary / publisher's summary are present. Might be better to completely ignore the GAME sources in the bot run and just add them by hand.)
:when we consider this, it starts to make a lot more sense that a bunch of deleted scenes lack pages altogether. Stuff which breaks Rule ''1'' goes un-covered ''all the time''.
I mean, surely this comment in Scrooge's closing post only makes sense if R1 breakers ''can'' be covered. (And note that this was after the narrative->fiction shift.)  


It's at the very least non-trivial that we can easily divorce R1 from validity in this proposal, and I think probably straightforwardly false that we've meaningfully done so already in a way that R4 truly constitutes a separate stage. (Note, as I'm writing up the last section, I figured out the obvious examples. Stage Plays and Escape Rooms. Arguably they violate R3, but this is still a problem, as they're covered as invalid. I believe it's generally a R1 issue too.) And sometimes failing R1 means not covered, sometimes it means invalid, and it's messy and the entire thing ''really is'' one policy, stage three is a substage of stage 1, we assign validity when we create these OOU pages and then create IU pages referencing the labels the equipped sources on wiki use. But I do think there's something wrong with our account of coverage. It's just different from what Scrooge suggests.
HOMEVID = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Home videos->[[:Category:Home videos by year of release]] (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID


Namely. Boy, "not covered" can sure mean a few different things, can't it? And there's not always a clear rhyme or reason as to why something that "isn't covered" is in one category and not the other. Like, sure, validity, invalidity, they pass R2 and R3, and are vaguely speaking works of fiction. To be valid it must pass R1 and R4, to be invalid it has to pass at least part of R1. There are ways in which it can fail R1 and be not covered. These types of stories have pages, plot summaries, and in-universe pages for their characters and plot elements. Sure, the invalid ones don't "talk" to the valid ones, but they're largely the same.
COMIC = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Comic stories->[[:Category:Comic stories by year of release]] (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID


But, like, there are some "not covered" things that we just don't discuss here, for a variety of reasons, failing R2, R3, etc etc. But you can be "not covered" and still have a page here. Or have a page here and even have a plot summary. Or not have your own page, but be a part of a collection page dedicated to a specific type of thing or specific series. I'm ''really'' skeptical that we can offload our problems we've found here onto a split between T:VS and T:CS, but dear lord there's a whole hierarchy of how things can "fail to have in universe pages for plot elements" and still be on this wiki that we just have no terminology for and no clear unifying standards. It's very much a case by case basis.
AUDIO = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Audio stories->[[:Category:Audio stories by year of release]] (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID
 
Should we actually split T:VS and T:CS? I don't think so. I think if we want to go down this route, which we may! This seems to be where everyone is headed! If we go down this route, the issues are much deeper engrained, and I don't think that a split this simple will change things. Moreover, I think even ''this'' split is so radical that I'd suggest asking every admin we know to be semi-active to weigh in. (And, yes, it's both simple and radical. It's too simple for what it needs to be, and radical for how it changes how the wiki has been operating for a decade.)
 
If we really want to go down the "reform T:VS" route, my suggestion instead would be that we, again, ask all the semi-active admins to weigh in, just to start. Then the next strategy is that we prepare for quite some time to basically do a full rewrite. We let people know in GB, reddit, twitter, etc, that we're doing a large policy overhaul and want feedback, (I know, I know, I love asking the community. But this in particular is a really big change.) as well as having at least one other person do something like my [[User:Najawin/Sandbox 7|archaeology project]], so that multiple perspectives on the history of the wiki and what's important can be seen as editors read up on this in preparation. I think it's something that we should approach with a lot of care. But this is a suggestion. Once again, people can feel free to disregard it.
 
====Category Theory is a Lie and Alexander Grothendieck Set Mathematics Back 100 Years====
So perhaps I'm just too set in my ways, but I don't fully understand Scrooge's response about linear time invalidity for contradiction. His argument doesn't seem even slightly analogous to me. Let me explain why using some handy dandy <s>commutative</s> continuity diagrams. Here's the terminology you need to understand these diagrams, okay? "VN", where N is a number means that this is the Nth "Valid" story we're considering for the diagram, "IN" means this is the Nth "Invalid" story, "V1->V2" means something like "V1 informs the continuity of V2", or "V2 is trying to be in continuity with V1". "V1-/->V2" means the negation of that, and "V1<->V2" and "V1<-/->V2" means that we erase the time dependence of our previous relations.
 
So back in the days of yore, we had the following two stories,
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1, & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>.
You might ask why I'm not including an arrow here. Because, frankly, my argument has no need for it. V1 and I1 might have related continuities, they might not. (EG: It's hard to deny that Shalka is continuous from the classic series.) My argument does not assume that invalid stories and valid stories are intentionally discontinuous. Indeed, it considers the entire issue a red herring. Now, given these two stories, we can consider another story that references the two of them.
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \rightarrow I2 & \leftarrow & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>. Now, I2 was made invalid, and this, crucially, was because of the connected arrows, because of a pattern present in this diagram, namely,
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& I1 & \rightarrow & ? & \Rightarrow & I1 & \rightarrow & I2\\
\end{array}
</math>.
The sequels/prequels to invalid stories thread changed this. Now, depending on factors other than patterns in these diagrams, both
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \rightarrow I2 & \leftarrow & I1\\
\end{array}
</math> and
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \rightarrow V2 & \leftarrow & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>
can exist.<br>
The R4bp thread concluded with the idea that considering diagrams of the form,
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \rightarrow V2 & \leftarrow & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>
we can replace them with
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \rightarrow V2 & \leftarrow & V3\\
\end{array}
</math>.
This is asymmetric. Scrooge suggests the issue is one of looking at the same graph while removing the time element. I wish to submit that this is clearly false. If we're considering diagrams of the form
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \rightarrow \quad ? & \leftarrow & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>
and simply deciding whether "?" is to be valid or invalid, I don't see how changing this diagram to
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \leftrightarrow \quad ? & \leftrightarrow  & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>
changes the calculation one whit. (Indeed, it's arguably ''because'' of this change that my argument works! We need there to be a symmetry between going from
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \leftarrow & I1 & \Rightarrow & V1 & \leftarrow & V2\\
\end{array}
</math>
to
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& ? & \leftarrow & I1 & \Rightarrow & I2 & \leftarrow & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>
and there just isn't without assuming time invariance. My argument really was that using these arrows ''at all'' was circular reasoning, given how our diagrams were populated, but time invariance actually makes it stronger. Otherwise this second form of the argument only works on diagrams of the form
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \rightarrow I2 & \leftarrow & I1\\
\end{array}
</math>
which is a rather different issue.)
 
Perhaps the difference will become more apparent if we chart out his proposed counter example and why I don't think they're similar?
 
Scrooge suggests we consider the ''following'' diagram instead:<br>
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V2 & \nrightarrow & V3 \\
& \uparrow & \nearrow \\
& V1 \\
\end{array}
</math>, or, if you prefer,
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V2 & \nrightarrow & ? \\
& \uparrow & \nearrow \\
& V1 \\
\end{array}
</math>.<br>
And this is clearly non analogous, right? I mean, even if you insist that my hypothetical ''has'' to populate the continuity relationship between V1 and I1, a view I straightforwardly reject, even if you apply time invariance to this graph as well (bear with me, this is actually the one issue here, diagonal arrows can't do this on mediawiki, so I'm going to turn it into a box diagram)<br>
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V2 & \nleftrightarrow & ? \\
& \updownarrow && \updownarrow \\
& V1 & = & V1 \\
\end{array}
</math>,<br>
in this analogy, there's still a giant hole - that both stories already propagating the diagram are already valid, and the "non continuous" arrow is a relationship between one of them and the new story we're considering, not between the previous stories that already are present in the diagram.
 
Now, one might argue, perhaps we shouldn't privilege past states of the diagram over future ones. That if we fill in those continuity arrows between I1 and V1 from my example we get<br>
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \nrightarrow & I1 \\
& \downarrow & \swarrow \\
& ? \\
\end{array}
</math><br>
and then adding time invariance to this diagram gives us<br>
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \nleftrightarrow & I1 \\
& \updownarrow && \updownarrow \\
& ? & = & ?  \\
\end{array}
</math><br>
and then when we realize that in his example we clearly agree with validity for the question mark, so we do so here as well, and then this back propagates to I1. So <br>
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& V1 & \nleftrightarrow & V3 \\
& \updownarrow && \updownarrow \\
& V2 & = & V2  \\
\end{array}
</math>.<br>
Potentially then all structures of the form<br>
<math>
\begin{array}{lcl}
& X & \nleftrightarrow & X \\
& \updownarrow && \updownarrow \\
& X & = & X  \\
\end{array}
</math><br>
are either all valid or invalid?
 
Perhaps this is what Scrooge is suggesting all along? It's not time invariance wrt ''media'', it's time invariance wrt ''the decisions we make about these pieces of media.'' I don't ''really'' think he is? I'm just trying to steelman this argument. I don't really see a reading in which the two are analogous otherwise. Like - it's got some weird implications for how we conduct validity debates at the very least. At this point, not being a category theorist, and that's probably the best way to think about this, I think I have to beg off discussion ever so slightly, but my ''intuition'' is that this is precisely the reductive version of R4 Scrooge has suggested and people have not largely been fans of. It's that instead of springboarding off of ''Unearthly Child'' our web springboards off of every piece of DWU media. That's my ''guess''. (I think this is the first time I've ever wished Amorkuz was here - I think he was an algebraist?)
 
====Continuity, References, Android Boyfriends, oh my!====
And so we come to this. Perhaps the heart of Scrooge and my disagreement, and perhaps the thing we'll simply never see eye to eye on. I think I can convince him on much of the rest that's gone before, or perhaps that we'll come close to mutual understanding. But this, no, I think we're just speaking fundamentally different languages here. Case in point
:The question of whether the Doctor's line in Time of the Doctor is referencing the Shalka Master or not… already exists. It would exist, just as irresolvable, even if we decided to throw up our hands and delete the #Continuity sections. Heck, let's also delete #References while we're at it. The question is still there, laughing at us, because — I cannot believe I did not spell this out sooner — we still have to decide whether we put that line on [[The Master (Scream of the Shalka)]] or create a separate [[the Doctor's boyfriend (The Time of the Doctor)]] page.
We do the second. It's site policy. We do the second. This has been upheld time and time again. ''We do not go further than what the source tells us.'' Indeed, I state something very similar to the inverse of this argument in my OP.
::We all agree that for various events in the DWU competing events are relatively common, yes? And it's important to report neutrally on these accounts, stating what each source tells us, and not to speculate further. So if in one source we see precisely X and in another Y, we say that in one account X was held to have happened and in another Y was held to have happened, refusing to speculate further, refusing to say further than what X tells us, and refusing to say further than what Y tells us. And previously there was some symmetry between how we handled these cases and invalid sources and valid sources referencing invalid ones. An invalid source says X, but it also, implicitly, says that it cannot be trusted and we can't use it to write articles, so we ignore it, and then a valid source says precisely Y, so we say Y. But now we've decided to break this symmetry.
And this is where I feel our intuitions just differ fundamentally. Mine, vs yours and Nate's and probably many other's. For me it's ''less than ideal'' to have these pages for the things we all clearly know are The Master, etc, on pages other than theirs. But I'd rather make sure that we don't speculate over having a flawed rule in order to merge them. (And lest someone suggest that any rule we create to merge them will be fine because "we'll only apply it to pages we know concretely should be merged", first of all, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, second of all, you can imagine how little this is going to convince the mathematician. "Oh, we have this cool machinery that's proving all these theorems we're pretty sure are true. P!=NP, Collatz, Navier Stokes, Golbach, Twin Primes..." "Okay, but I've seen the machinery, it's pretty suspicious and it looks like it can be used to imply basically anything." "Yeah, but that's okay, we're only using it on stuff we already know is true.")
 
Now, I'd like to rebut the idea that I'm against "continuity" or "referencing" at all. This isn't true. I just don't think that we, the wiki editors, have access to that knowledge. (Because, again, actual intentionalist. Well, partially. I just think that ''textual evidence'' is a very poor guide for what precisely we're looking for here and it's going to lead to incredibly messy differences of opinion. We are epistemically limited in this matter to a truly remarkable degree.) And so if we decide to use it for validity it must be based on authorial statements. As I said in the original R4bp thread. I ''do'' think it's occasionally possible for there to be relatively unambiguous and universally understood statements of the type of authorial intent we're looking for in a text. I just believe they're ''incredibly'' rare. And this is what the Android Boyfriend example shows to me - not the impossibility of communication between individuals, but that we fundamentally cannot be trusted as to what "clear" actually means when we're reading a text. One person sees a particular reading as obvious, another sees another reading as obvious. It might still be the case that in a different section of the book everyone, or near everyone, reads the text in the same way. But we should be very skeptical that our readings of texts are the sorts of things that we need for this policy to work without authorial statements. We're just so epistemically limited here. (I also note that I don't ''wish'' to define the DWU as R4 intends it as completely divorced from continuity. It ''is'' defined that way, well, modulo R4bp. It's constructed by [[T:VS]].)
 
But no, I don't think this line of attack is particularly compelling. It's explicitly site policy to not speculate, to only say what the source tells you, nothing more. I'm quite comfortable declining to do so, or at least trying my best not to, (because I know I've done so in the past, forgive me Scrooge, for I have sinned) and being deeply skeptical of those things that I accuse of subjectivity. I note as well that this criticism rests on trying to dissolve the distinction between the language and the metalanguage, as it were, how we add things to and categorize them within the DWU, and how the DWU resolves itself once things have been added. I am, of course, deeply skeptical of this.
 
====And others as I'm working on this====

Latest revision as of 03:19, 12 October 2024

(Next step: Actually define the comic tree stuff, as in the WC stuff. Some of the branches have their own leaves.)

Wow, I should have gotten to this project sooner, but the fork gives me reason to return to it.[[edit] | [edit source]]

Forum:Temporary forums/Categories for stories without summaries established that this category tree should exist, and that it should look a specific way. However, generating the specific categories takes a bit of work because it requires figuring out where all our, say, PROSE works are, and making sure that we can figure out a relatively simple definition of a PROSE work using our category system. (Obviously we could start from the root Category:Prose sources and work down to the leaves, but this is a monumental amount of work for the bot run and isn't guaranteed to be error free.)

Category tree[[edit] | [edit source]]

Category:Missing summaries

Category:Missing plot summaries
Clearly to be in this category the bot will need to detect that the "plot" section on whatever page is being tested says some variation of "To be added" or similar. (Perhaps if there both exists a plot section, and it is smaller than a certain length? We'd have to be careful about Vrs (short story) and a few others if we do that, but it's plausible.)
Category:Missing PROSE plot summaries
Category:Missing AUDIO plot summaries
Generate subcategories based on "Category:Audio stories by company", preserving subcategories within this structure. (So, eg, Category:Big Finish audio stories plot summaries, followed by Category:BFBS audio stories plot summaries)
Category:Missing COMIC plot summaries
Category:Missing GASPS comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Cutaway comic plot summaries
Category:Missing DAN comic plot summaries
Category:Missing The Dalek Book comic plot summaries
Category:Missing The Dalek Outer Space Book comic plot summaries
Category:Missing The Dalek World comic plot summaries
Category:Missing DWA comic plot summaries
Category:Missing AAAGH! comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Alien Babies! comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Tenth Doctor DWA comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Eleventh Doctor DWA comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing Twelfth Doctor DWA comic plot summaries
Category:Missing DWAN comic plot summaries
Category:Missing DWBIT comic plot summaries
Category:Missing DWM comic plot summaries
Category:Missing DWM backup comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Four Hours of Doom's Day plot summaries
Category:Missing The Cybermen plot summaries‎
Category:Missing The Daft Dimension comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing First Doctor DWM comic plot summaries‎
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Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic plot summaries‎
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Category:Missing Doctor Who? comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing The History Tour comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing Moments in Time comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing Nix View comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing Tales from the TARDIS comic plot summaries‎
Category:Missing DWS comic plot summaries
Category:Missing FF comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing Free-Fall Warriors plot summaries
Category:Missing IDW comic plot summaries
Category:Missing DW09 comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing IDW Doctor Who Annual comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing It's Bigger on the Inside! comic plot summaries
Category:Missing LP comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Polystyle comic plot summaries
Category:Missing PHS comic plot summaries
Category:Missing TVA comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Third Doctor TVA comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing First Doctor TVC comic plot summaries
Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries
Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing RT comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing DW20 comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing FD backup comic plot summaries
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Category:Missing TV21 comic plot summaries
Category:Missing TV21 The Daleks comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Web-based comic plot summaries
Category:Missing BBC Writers' Comics plot summaries
Category:Missing The Forge comic plot summaries
Category:Missing Who's Where? comic plot summaries
Category:Missing HOMEVID plot summaries
No subcategories, generated entirely from the HOMEVID cat defined below
Category:Missing WC plot summaries
Category:Missing Arcbeatle WC plot summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Arcbeatle webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing BBCi WC plot summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:BBCi, minus BBC Red Button, and then the leaves of Category:TARDIS Cam stories INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing BBV WC plot summaries
Comes from leaves inCategory:BBV webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Big Finish WC plot summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Big Finish webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Doom's Day WC plot summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Doom's Day webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Lego Dimensions WC plot summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:LEGO Dimensions trailers‎ INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Monster Files plot summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Monster Files stories‎ INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing P.R.O.B.E. plot summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:P.R.O.B.E. webcasts‎ INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing SJA WC plot summaries
Comes from Category:SJA webcasts‎'s leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Mr Smith's data updates‎ WC plot summaries
Comes from Category:Mr Smith's data updates‎‎'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing TLV WC plot summaries
Comes from Category:TLV webcasts's leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing UNIT Field Log WC plot summaries
Comes from Category:UNIT Field Log webcasts‎'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing GAME plot summaries
Take the leaves from this category + the leaves from the subcategories of Category:Video games by Doctor
Category:Missing NOTVALID plot summaries
Category:Missing publisher summaries
Same as before, but for publisher summary.
Category:Missing PROSE publisher summaries
Category:Missing AUDIO publisher summaries
Generate subcategories based on "Category:Audio stories by company", preserving subcategories within this structure. (So, eg, Category:Big Finish audio stories plot summaries, followed by Category:BFBS audio stories plot summaries)
Category:Missing COMIC publisher summaries
Category:Missing GASPS comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Cutaway comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DAN comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing The Dalek Book comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing The Dalek Outer Space Book comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing The Dalek World comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DWA comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing AAAGH! comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Alien Babies! comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Tenth Doctor DWA comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Eleventh Doctor DWA comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Twelfth Doctor DWA comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DWAN comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DWBIT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DWM comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DWM backup comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Four Hours of Doom's Day publisher summaries
Category:Missing The Cybermen publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing The Daft Dimension comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing First Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Second Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Third Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Fourth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Fifth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Sixth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Seventh Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Eighth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Ninth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Tenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Eleventh Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Twelfth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Thirteenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Fourteenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Fifteenth Doctor DWM comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Doctor Who? comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Dr. Who's Time Tales comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing The History Tour comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Moments in Time comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Nix View comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing Tales from the TARDIS comic publisher summaries‎
Category:Missing DWS comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing FF comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Four Hours of Doom's Day publisher summaries
Category:Missing Free-Fall Warriors publisher summaries
Category:Missing IDW comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DW09 comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DW11 comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DW12 comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing IDW Doctor Who Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing POT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing IHP comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing It's Bigger on the Inside! comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing LP comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Polystyle comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing PHS comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TVA comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Third Doctor TVA comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TVC comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing First Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Fourth Doctor TVC comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TVC Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Annual comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing First Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Second Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Third Doctor TVC Holiday Special comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing RT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TIDH comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Reprinted TIDH comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Titan comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 10D comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 10D backup comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 10D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 11D comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 11D backup comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 11D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 12D comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 12D backup comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 12D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 8D comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 9D comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 9D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 15D comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing DW20 comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing FCBD comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing FD backup comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TM comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TW comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing WeLoveTITANS publisher summaries
Category:Missing 10D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 11D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 12D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing 9D WLT comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TV21 comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing TV21 The Daleks comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Web-based comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing BBC Writers' Comics publisher summaries
Category:Missing The Forge comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing Who's Where? comic publisher summaries
Category:Missing HOMEVID publisher summaries
No subcategories, generated entirely from the HOMEVID cat defined below
Category:Missing WC publisher summaries
Category:Missing Arcbeatle WC publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Arcbeatle webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing BBCi WC publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:BBCi, minus BBC Red Button, and then the leaves of Category:TARDIS Cam stories INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing BBV WC publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:BBV webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Big Finish WC publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Big Finish webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Doom's Day WC publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Doom's Day webcasts INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Lego Dimensions WC publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:LEGO Dimensions trailers‎ INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Monster Files publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:Monster Files stories‎ INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing P.R.O.B.E. publisher summaries
Comes from leaves in Category:P.R.O.B.E. webcasts‎ INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing SJA WC publisher summaries
Comes from Category:SJA webcasts‎'s leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing Mr Smith's data updates‎ WC publisher summaries
Comes from Category:Mr Smith's data updates‎‎'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing TLV WC publisher summaries
Comes from Category:TLV webcasts's leaves, not the subcategory. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing UNIT Field Log WC publisher summaries
Comes from Category:UNIT Field Log webcasts‎'s leaves. INTERSECT WC
Category:Missing GAME publisher summaries
Take the leaves from this category + the leaves from the subcategories of Category:Video games by Doctor
Category:Missing NOTVALID publisher summaries

Transversal of tree[[edit] | [edit source]]

(For reference, Category:Sources) Not sure if this will help the bot, but I'm specifying this just in case, our category tree is rather complicated, and it will also allow me to simplify my notation above.

NOTVALID = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Non-DWU sources->Category:Non-DWU sources by medium (UNION of all subcategories)

Novel = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->PROSE stories->Novels->Category:Novels by year of release (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

Feature = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->PROSE stories->Features->Category:Features by year of release (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

Short Story = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->PROSE stories->Short stories->Category:Short stories by year of release (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

PROSE = Short Story UNION Novel UNION Feature

WC = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Webcasts->Category:Webcasts by year of release (UNION Of all subcategories)

Film = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Category:Theatrical films (UNION Of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

Tv = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Television stories->Category:Television stories by airdate (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

TV=Film UNION Tv

GAME = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Real world video games->Category:Video games by year of release (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID (nb: As far as I can tell the other groups can't consistently have plot summaries, they're just not the sorts of things where that makes sense, and almost always have the publisher summaries listed already. Personally I don't see the need for subcategories here for mediums, since the others should be effectively rounding errors. Also, in general I'm skeptical about doing this one by bot run, a lot of these aren't written in such a way that plot summary / publisher's summary are present. Might be better to completely ignore the GAME sources in the bot run and just add them by hand.)

HOMEVID = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Home videos->Category:Home videos by year of release (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

COMIC = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Comic stories->Category:Comic stories by year of release (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

AUDIO = Floor 500->Real world->Sources->Audio stories->Category:Audio stories by year of release (UNION of all subcategories) SETMINUS NOTVALID

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