Forum:Home Era

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Original discussion

You know, I've noticed recently the changing of home era in the infoboxes to be century-specific rather than decade or year-specific. This is a more accurate usage for the label, I realize. However, in a few cases, we do seem to lose info by doing so. Specifically, just recently the Billy (Delta and the Bannermen) page was updated. And in this case, we lose what time he is from. I mean, when the character is contemporary to the show, it doesn't really matter. But in this case, now reading the article, I don't know that he isn't from the '80s when the episode aired (well, except his clothes). I feel like I've lost relevant information about the character. Or would have, if I hadn't seen the episode yet (certainly I hadn't when I first read the article shortly after discovering this site). I know I could get that info by looking at the episode article. But would it be okay or advisable to, when changing over the home-era to add a reference to the narrower range (or specific year) in the body of the article? I was thinking of trying to work the year into that article, is all. But I don't know if it's really wanted by anyone else. Tzigone 16:16, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed this, and I think we are loosing information in this change.

Surely era can mean specific periods like the '50s etc. Rather than just the century?

Wikitionary gives era as "A time period of indeterminate length, generally more than one year.". --Tangerineduel 16:22, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see why we couldn't just give a century, (millenium if necessessary) then if again possible, or just to make it more accurate add in brackets the decade (i.e '50's). I'd also be in favor for using (present day) for characters who are from present Earth- the majority of companions and spinoff cast etc. - I. Am. Excalibur-117-^{(talk • contribs)} 16:33, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

But what about those who are born in say... the 40s and appear at different times throughout their lives. Do we put 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s etc? I feel the century option is the best and, in their biography, it can easily state the year. Take Ocean Waters for example, her biography states "In 1972...." and "In 2010..." which I think is a fine way of doing it. --The Thirteenth Doctor 16:52, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

To be fair, the current system works. I think a real problem is that we lack a definite view of what constitues a Home Era. Is it where they're born, or when we last saw them residing? Most of the characters were born in the 20th Century, but live through part of the 21st as well (we usually just say the latter, but sometimes both are used.)- I. Am. Excalibur-117-^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

I consider it when they live. Jack was born in the 51st century, so that's his home era. He travelled to many different eras, but never had a "home" as such there. But he actually lived and set up "home" in the 20th and 21st century, staying in those places by choice. If the Doctor had decided to stay on Earth for the entire 21st century, setting up a home, we'd probably consider it his home era as well. --The Thirteenth Doctor 17:06, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

I changed a number of pages in this way as a characters life likely lasted longer than a decade and in some cases I've seen specific years in the info box. This was the case with a number of pages related to The Romans i.e. Nero. Maybe a century is too long though.--Skittles the hog 17:08, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

A possible solution could be to list the era they were born in, as well as the one they currently reside wherever possible. For example(just watched VoS, first that came to mind) Rani Chandra : Home Era: 20th Century(Born), 21st Century(Current). Everyones happy, and it allows for the most accuracy and personal intrepretation. - I. Am. Excalibur-117-^{(talk • contribs)} 17:26, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Bit of an overload in an already cramped infobox.--Skittles the hog 17:28, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Stay with the current system I think, the infobox is meant as a summary of the article, so to assuage Tzigone's concerns I think it's the writing of the article that needs to be looked at, rather than the infobox. Perhaps the lead sentence or so in articles should specify when an individual lived / was active.

Would it make it clearer to change the Home era section of the infobox from "Home Era" to "Era active"? --Tangerineduel 12:41, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

That'd work too.- I. Am. Excalibur-117-^{(talk • contribs)} 15:23, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Revisited

Recently, myself and Skittles have come to blows over what a person 'Home Era' is. I said that it was an era an individual considered their home/ the Era we see a person in (i.e Andy Davidson was only seen in stories set in the 21st century, so his home era would be the 21st century.)(basically how it is now). Skittles, though it depended on their age, and that all characters over that are over a certain age (i.e 2008 = over 8 years old) their home era would be the 21st century as well as the 20th century. So basically, what is a person's home era? What should a person home era be? Mini-mitch\talk 22:16, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

I've had this same discussion with respect to the categories, like category:20th century individuals. Personally, I think the whole exercise of dating someone by a range of years is futile and should be abandoned so we can get on to more important work. An infobox should be for stone-cold solid information. If there's a field which produces consternation, like this one most certainly does, the answer is simply to remove it. Like TD says above, the burden is on the article itself, really.

I'm for the elimination of the line in the infobox, and, frankly, for the utter destruction of the "nth century individuals" categories, too. It's a bloody waste of time which at the end of the day produces nothing of value. "Home era" means nothing in a universe where time travel is the central conceit.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 

Actually, "home era" means nothing in the real world, either. What would you call your "home era"? Having a hard time with that? Do you in any way use that phrase in common speech? Exactly. Get rid of it. It's stupid.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 

Reading your comment, I agree. It's very difficult to come up with what someone's home era actually is, and time travel makes the matter even more confusing. People consider different dates to be their home era. I agree 100% with you about deleting the categories and the line in the infobox. Mini-mitch\talk 11:46, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the removal of line in the infobox.

I agree in principle with getting rid of the Cat:Nth century individuals (it just mildly annoys me that several hundred articles will end up back in the Cat:Individuals category). Though I'm sure some other sub-categories can be dreamt up! --Tangerineduel / talk 14:04, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Locking at infoboxes from other wikis, there are quite a few sections we could add, such as: loyalty, family, age, title, status to name a few. But if we were to put a new section into the infobox, it should not be done until we decide what to do with Home Era. Mini-mitch\talk 16:11, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure how this jumped from a duplicated word to "remove the line" but okay, it sounds good.Skittles the hog--Talk 18:09, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Less than a quarter of the individuals the Doctor meets are time travellers. The time travellers he does meet usually aren't wandering the universe like cosmic hobos. Time Lords and Time Agents (while there was an agency) generally have a fixed point in space and time which they return to. In The War Games, a Time Lord says to Jamie and Zoe that "We're going to send you home, back to your own world and your own time." Jamie moved out of linear time for a while but let's see who his contemporaries were.

"Do you in any way use that phrase in common speech?" I have never had to introduce myself to someone from another planet much less someone from the 51st century or from the 15th century. All of these example categories are small enough that they don't need to be organised like Wikipedia:Category:20th-century people.

"Hello, William Shakespeare. I've spent a week here but my home era is the 21st century."
"I'm Grant Morrison from Earth. I came here because my former editor, Tharg the Mighty, told me about a great job in the Betelgeuse system where William S. Burroughs is worshipped as a god."

What was the original topic again? --Nyktimos 05:38, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

SO i take it you'r against the deletion of the categories? Also, I was pondering whether to put the deletion tag on the 'x century individuals' pages, but I did not, as I though it would be better for a decision to come here. My plan was to direct people to this forums to voice their opinion when they see the deletion tag. Also, since there are quite a few of these page, it would have taken a lot of time. - which I must also ask, CzechOut, if we were to delete these categories, would your bot be able to do it, an remove the line from the infobox? Mini-mitch\talk 16:33, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

I'm a bit on the fence. I agree that the vast majority are not time-travellers. However, some characters cannot be defined in this way.--Skittles the hog--Talk 17:13, February 16, 2011 (UTC)