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Howling:"X is really Y" theories: why? (view source)
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::And the reason I'm trying to puzzle it out is, as I said, I suspect Moffat has tried to puzzle it out, and has probably succeeded better than me, and that might even influence his writing.... | ::And the reason I'm trying to puzzle it out is, as I said, I suspect Moffat has tried to puzzle it out, and has probably succeeded better than me, and that might even influence his writing.... | ||
:Anyway, that's a great point about other SF series. Some of them have had the big reveal be "X and Y are the same person" or "X is an alternate version of Y from another timeline" or whatever. Thanks. --[[User:Falcotron|Falcotron]] 06:29, May 6, 2010 (UTC) | |||
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:As a partial answer, I'd suggest that psycologically we have a need to show that we know more than other people within our 'in-group' do about the common subject? And perhaps, it's a wish fulfilment thing for a return of favourite characters? Or, perhaps the forums are trying to set up a self-fulfilling prophecy? [[Special:Contributions/86.26.137.154|86.26.137.154]] 09:13, May 6, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:Examples where X is really Y? OK... | |||
:Valeyard is the doctor | |||
:Face of Boe is Jack Harkness | |||
:Prof. YANA is the Master | |||
:+ numerous examples from classic series that I'm too lazy to mention[[User:RUMyMommy|RUMyMommy]] 17:59, May 6, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::To quote my original post: "Sure, often a newly-introduced character turns out to be the Master or Rassilon or whatever in that same story, but have they ever followed someone as a recurring character over multiple stories and then revealed him to be someone else?" Giving examples like Professor Yana doesn't answer that. --[[User:Falcotron|Falcotron]] 01:51, May 7, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::The Valeyard would seem the obvious answer, given that he appeared throughout the Trial of a Timelord arc. Although, to be fair, I think the majority of the X is Y speculation is merely wishful thinking by those who wish to crowbar characters from the classic into the new. [[User:RUMyMommy|RUMyMommy]] 15:23, May 7, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::But that just leaves the same question. If it's wishful thinking, why that wish? | |||
:::Sure, I can understand people wishing for the Rani to come back. But it would be much simpler to just bring the Rani back as herself than to write out River Song by turning her into the Rani, and that would leave us with both characters instead of just one. | |||
:::As for the Valeyard, [[The Trial of a Time Lord]] is one story. To quote from the article on [[The Mysterious Planet]], "While listed [on this website, and by many fans] as a single story this story and the three others that make up 'The Trial of a Time Lord' are in fact one long story making this the longest Doctor Who story." | |||
:::On top of that, the Valeyard reveal didn't actually bring back a familiar old character--we already had the Doctor, and we never got any significant Doctory-ness out of the Valeyard after he was revealed. That would be like bringing back the Master as himself through series 3, and then right before the finale saying, "Oh, by the way, Martha's brother is also the Master, but now he's gone and we've got just the main Master." Nobody would be clamoring for that. --[[User:Falcotron|Falcotron]] 18:32, May 7, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:I think a large part of the reason that people want X to be Y is that a reveal is much more dramatic when it's been set up for a while but you haven't seen it. Considering, for example, the Rani above; it's much less dramatic if the character you've just met turns out to be the Rani than if one you've known all this time is the Rani and has been manipulating events all season. It's an extension of the Yana reveal. It's more dramatic for Yana to be revealed to be the Master than for the Master just to show up at the start of the episode. | |||
:Similarly, River Song is the Rani is a much bigger twist, with much greater implications, than just "Oh by the way, that woman trying to turn the human race into monkeys....yeah, she's the Rani". It's a much bigger shock when you think you know someone and they turn out to be someone different than when you've just met someone and they turn out to not be who you thought they were/you meet someone and know immediately who they are. | |||
:There's also something of an unfinished business feel people have about the original series. Some people wanted to see Romana end up with the Doctor. So for them, having it revealed that River was actually Romana would have given a great sense of satisfaction. | |||
:Then there's also the fact that people want to be able to accurately speculate about a character's identity. If the Silence turn out to be working for Bill Locksley, and the viewer has no idea who Bill Locksley is, then there's no way to speculate who the Silence are working for and what they want. If the Silence turn out to be working for the Master, then the viewer can guess the twist. | |||
:So overall there are a lot of reasons.[[Special:Contributions/210.49.167.47|210.49.167.47]] 05:42, September 21, 2011 (UTC) | |||
::First, your "unfinished business" bit does explain "why the wish", at least in some cases. Good point. But the others, I don't think so. | |||
::As much as I love Derek Jacobi, I think one episode of Yana was just about the right amount, and in fact I would have been far more disappointed if the Master turned out to be, say, Jack instead. If they'd instead revealed one of the well-known recurring characters to be the Master, that might be a _big_ twist, but it wouldn't be an _interesting_ one. Would you really think, "Oh, so that's why Jack helped save the universe, had sex with everything that moves, set up an organization to protect the Earth from aliens, and in general acted as much unlike the Master as possible for the last three years—because he's the Master! Wow!" No, you'd think, "Why did they take a completely different character, and an interesting one at that, and throw him away for a stupid twist that makes no sense?" | |||
::If the Silence turn out to be working for the Master, sure, that could be an interesting twist,but that's not an "X is really Y" reveal at all. We haven't met the leader of the Silence and gotten to know him as a recurring companion; we just know the Silence as a shadowy organization with mysterious goals. --[[Special:Contributions/70.36.140.19|70.36.140.19]] 06:54, September 21, 2011 (UTC) | |||
::First, please note that I'm not suggesting this as a real possibility but a much better plot twist would be to reveal that the Master (or the Rani, or whoever) had in fact been working for the Silence all along, rather than the other way around. --[[Special:Contributions/89.242.78.198|89.242.78.198]] 08:01, September 21, 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::Agreed. --[[Special:Contributions/70.36.140.19|70.36.140.19]] 17:53, September 21, 2011 (UTC) | |||