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Howling:Eye of Harmony in the Doctor's TARDIS (view source)
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We all see the Eye of Harmony inside the Doctor's TARDIS in the TV Movie, apparently its main power source. Now "The Deadly Assassin" also features the Eye of Harmony, but there it resides on Gallifrey. Some have attempted to solve this discrepancy by saying that the Eye in the TVM was not the same as in TDA, but a duplicate that's part of all Type 40 TARDISes. But when you think about it, even that doesn't make much sense, because by the Doctor's time, no one on Gallifrey knew the location of the Eye; it had long ago been lost in the ancient past, and was regarded as mostly mythical. So how could the Time Lords have duplicated something they had so little knowledge of? [[Special:Contributions/82.2.136.93|82.2.136.93]] 19:55, August 13, 2011 (UTC) | We all see the Eye of Harmony inside the Doctor's TARDIS in the TV Movie, apparently its main power source. Now "The Deadly Assassin" also features the Eye of Harmony, but there it resides on Gallifrey. Some have attempted to solve this discrepancy by saying that the Eye in the TVM was not the same as in TDA, but a duplicate that's part of all Type 40 TARDISes. But when you think about it, even that doesn't make much sense, because by the Doctor's time, no one on Gallifrey knew the location of the Eye; it had long ago been lost in the ancient past, and was regarded as mostly mythical. So how could the Time Lords have duplicated something they had so little knowledge of? [[Special:Contributions/82.2.136.93|82.2.136.93]] 19:55, August 13, 2011 (UTC) | ||
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If the eyes could work without being connected to the pime eye, then the Doctor wouldn't need to use rift energy after the Time War, would he. They robably had the eye in the TARDIS linked to the prime eye on Gallifrey back in ancient times, forgot about it over the years, got rid of the mini eye and started using an alternate power source, found the main eye in ''The Deadly Assassin'', reinstalled the minieyes in modern TARDISes, and linked them all to the newly rediscovered prime eye. THhe Doctor would have had plenty of time in between ''The Deadly Assassin'' and the TV movie to get a mini eye in his TARDIS.[[User:Icecreamdif|Icecreamdif]] 01:34, September 2, 2011 (UTC) | If the eyes could work without being connected to the pime eye, then the Doctor wouldn't need to use rift energy after the Time War, would he. They robably had the eye in the TARDIS linked to the prime eye on Gallifrey back in ancient times, forgot about it over the years, got rid of the mini eye and started using an alternate power source, found the main eye in ''The Deadly Assassin'', reinstalled the minieyes in modern TARDISes, and linked them all to the newly rediscovered prime eye. THhe Doctor would have had plenty of time in between ''The Deadly Assassin'' and the TV movie to get a mini eye in his TARDIS.[[User:Icecreamdif|Icecreamdif]] 01:34, September 2, 2011 (UTC) | ||
:"All TARDISes could not have had a direct link to the Eye when the Doctor's TARDIS was created," Well, RTD, his script editor, and a slew of EDA writers think it could have had a direct link, but maybe you know ''Doctor Who'' better than all of them. | |||
:Just because you can't imagine how something can be explained doesn't mean there's no possible explanation. Maybe someone else is more clever than you—or, more likely, someone else is just more obsessive than you and willing to waste more time thinking one up. I gave some possible explanations above, that people thought up decades ago in long geeky arguments (the Master couldn't use the link because there's not enough power—just like you can't toast marshmallows over your heating vents even though they're linked to a furnace; everybody knew about the power source for Gallifrey, but nobody knew that it was the fabled Eye of Harmony). You don't have to accept those as the canonical answer (the first one appears only in the EDAs, and the second has as far as I know never been used in-universe). But clearly they serve as an existence proof that an answer is possible. --[[Special:Contributions/173.228.85.35|173.228.85.35]] 07:54, September 2, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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:I thought that if the mini-Eyes were linked to the Great Eye during the Time War, when the Great Eye was destroyed when Gallifrey died, the feedback from the cataclysm could have damaged the mini-Eye in the Doctor's TARDIS irrepairably, so he had to utilize an alternative means of getting powe, such as rift energy. [[Special:Contributions/194.168.208.42|194.168.208.42]] 13:21, September 2, 2011 (UTC) | |||
Okay, 173, I think that we can both admit that the concept of anyobdy in the universe being cleverer than me is completely impossible. Second of all, just becuse RTD says something about Doctor Who doesn't make it automatically true or canon. It becomes canon if he actuallyy writes an epoisode and puts the information into it, but otherwise it is stil speculation. The Master may not have been able to use the link in Goth's TARDIS to use his plan from ''The Deadly Assassin'', but if there was an eye in Goth's TARDIS he could have used his plan from the TV Movie, and stolen anonther timelords regenerations.As for your theory that the Time Lords don't know where their power was coming from; even the Time Lords aren't that stupid. At least one Time Lord would have bothered to go into the basement of his TARDIS and would notice a giant creepy looking eye in the hutheir huge bat infested dungeon, and would try to figure out where the power was coming from.[[User:Icecreamdif|Icecreamdif]] 15:41, September 2, 2011 (UTC) | |||
Yes. And, given his propensity for getting himself into trouble by nosing around, that Time Lord would probably have been the Doctor. --[[Special:Contributions/89.241.66.115|89.241.66.115]] 16:06, September 2, 2011 (UTC) | |||
Well, except that that would be a bit inconvenient for the Doctor. He didn't have his own TARDIS until he stole one, and he had to run away from Gallifrey after that. Then, of course, the one time he went back to Gallifrey he was put on trial and exiled back to Earth, and then the next time he went there he actually did end up finding the prime eye. Still, you would think that somebody would have found it even before the Doctor's time if every TARDIS had a mini-eye.[[User:Icecreamdif|Icecreamdif]] 17:53, September 2, 2011 (UTC) | |||
<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">Nobody's saying that anything is automatically canon. As I've said multiple times already, you can reject his DWA story if you want, because it wasn't on TV, and likewise for the EDAs and the various writers' off-camera discussions. But once you do that, nobody has ever mentioned the link, so why are you trying to explain how the link works in the first place?</p> | |||
<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">"As for your theory that the Time Lords don't know where their power was coming from…" Since that's exactly the opposite of the theory, I'm not entirely sure how to respond. Let me try an analogy and see if you can get it.</p> | |||
<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">In the real world, the Greeks navigated by the Evening Star for centuries. Then Pythagoras rediscovered what the Babylonians had known 1000 years earlier: it was the same thing as the Morning Star. This wasn't just learning a new name for it, it was learning new properties. For example, this gave him and his followers understanding of how the "anomalous" heavenly bodies moved (which is what ultimately led to Ptolemy, Avicenna, and Copernicus).</p> | |||
<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">On Gallifrey, the Time Lords powered their civilization (and their TARDISes) off a great power source under the Panopticon for centuries. Then the Master rediscovered what Rassilon had known 5000 years earlier: it was the same thing as the legendary Eye of Harmony. This wasn't just learning a new name for it, it was learning new properties. For example, this is how he realized that the power source under the Panopticon was connected with the Rod and Sash, and could give himself a new cycle of regenerations.</p> | |||
<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">This is just one of multiple fan explanations from the 70s that was invented to resolve a problem between TDA and TIoT. When someone (apparently Gary Russell or Lance Parkin, according to the other guy above) invented the link idea to explain the new problem in the TV movie, they obviously knew about that 70s problem, and the various fanon solutions, because they were obsessive fans, so it's no surprise that the same 70s theories work for the links as well.</p> | |||
<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">And, since I know you're going to misinterpret this if I don't state it clearly: None of this means that the "the Master discovered they were the same thing" theory is automatically canon. Even if you accept the EDAs and the DWA story, they don't mention the events of TDA at all, and therefore don't retroactively canonize any explanation of them. All I'm saying is, just by virtue of being one possible explanation for all of the facts, it proves that it's not impossible to explain all of the facts. --[[Special:Contributions/173.228.85.35|173.228.85.35]] 18:10, September 2, 2011 (UTC)</p> | |||