User talk:68.146.80.110

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Comic strip stories

If you're complaining about "long-standing" things being changed, you must be a registered user who forgot to log in. If you'd like to log in and identify yourself with a signature on my user talk page, I'd be happy to explain the action.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 15:03: Tue 15 Nov 2011 

Well, as you've not supplied your username, I'll go ahead and give the answer here, though there's a chance you may never get this message if your IP address changes, or you remember to log in from here on out.

Just because something has been around for a while on this wiki doesn't mean it's right, or indeed sensible to the average reader. We've long neglected looking at the wiki from the reader's point of view, and have named articles in a variety of ways that may not make sense. With articles about comic stories, we've forgotten that a good portion of our American readers won't parse the word strip in the same way that Britons do. "Comic strip" has the connotation of being a thing exclusive to newspapers. "Comic story" however, is a neutral term that works on both sides of the Atlantic. Importantly, the term is broad enough to include things which aren't comic strips by anyone's reckoning, like longer form graphic novels and comic books. It's important to have a term that works for COMIC, DWM, and COMIC stories. Indeed, because of the vigourous presence of an American publisher, we must consider language that makes sense to American ears, as our spelling policy implies.

Furthermore a poll was taken of the community sometime back, where it was almost universally agreed that "comic story" was the best term. (See: Forum:Comic strip, comic story, comic.) So this isn't me making up policy; this is the enforcement of a community decision.

It should be pointed out, too, that "comic story" was the original nomenclature, pre-2007. To avoid making you do the page archaeology necessary to prove this point, just go to this thread, which was the origin for the introduction of the word "strip" into titles. It pretty obviously indicates that the term of "long standing" is actually "comic story". Also the difference between the introduction of "comic strip story" and the reassertion of "comic story" couldn't be more stark. "Comic strip story" came about essentially because of the whim of a single user, whereas "comic story" has been returned to use by overwhelming consensus of several active users.

Worse, "comic strip story" is horribly redundant. A thing is a "comic strip" or a "comic story", but as there's no way to have a comic strip without a story, "comic strip story" is one more word than ya need. Fundamentally, "comic strip story" isn't good English.

Also, I haven't disallowed redirects, so much as vigorously deleted the word "strip". Doctor Who Adventures comic stories is an active redirect.

Hope that answers your questions.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 15:36: Tue 15 Nov 2011 

I see from your recent message on user:Tangerineduel's page that you've apparently had dealings with me before that have made you go into hiding. I very much regret if I've done something that has offended you to that extent. I'd of course like the opportunity to make amends and explain whatever offense I've caused you in the past. I'm sure there's a simple explanation which has nothing to do with you personally. We need as many editors as we can get. I hate to think that I'm personally stopping you from editing.

For instance, in this case, you seem to be ascribing to me something I didn't really do. I didn't type the words "redirect supressed". "Redirect supressed" is a system message that is appended automatically when you choose not to create a redirect after a page move. If you were to move a page without creating a redirect, you too would appear to have typed the words "redirect suppressed".

That said, if the redirect is recreated, I will delete again, because of the many reasons listed above. If it's allowed to return, it will just be used again in articles, which goes against the spirit of the forum decision. However, this is quite a normal attitude to take. Anyone who deliberately chooses not to allow a redirect after a page move obviously intends that the phrase won't be linkable in the future. The very presence of the option indicates that such behavior is normal and allowable.

And nothing has been deleted. When you move a page, you move its history too. Check the history at DWA comic stories and you'll find it's all there. The substantive page has in no way been "harmed" by the move. Wikipedia uses the same basic software core that we do; moving largely works in the same way here as there.

That said, the reason that you don't see "redirect suppressed" in wikipedia move logs is because that option is not given to most users. If we didn't have that power here, we'd end up with a LOT of junk. Special:ListRedirects reveals quite clearly how many redirects are just misspellings or in violation of other policies or just generally silly. The deletion of redirects on a Wikia wiki is quite an ordinary part of the admin's job. In this particular case it impacts you because you have, unusually, created bookmarks. I apologise for the inconvenience of changing a bookmark, but on balance it couldn't have been predicted that someone would have a bookmark to such an obscure page.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 16:22: Tue 15 Nov 2011 

Redirects

This wiki had some fairly uneven naming rules etc. Wikipedia tends to have these bolted down and worked out. Over the past year or two we've been working to smooth and discuss the out-standing policy and Manual of Style rules on this wiki. Trying to come up with formats and policies for everything on the wiki. Part of this has involved changing article names and deleting stuff. Comic strip is just one of likely dozens if not hundreds of minor changes we've been making to bring a more consistent experience to editing here.

Redirects vs deletes - I would also point out that the DWA comic stories article hasn't been deleted and a new one created. It was moved and the redirect suppressed, this prevents the creation of the redirect, but there was no recreation of a new page see the page's history which goes all the way back to 2009.

However I understand how you can feel put out by some of the changes, compared to a few years ago this wiki has undergone massive changes. But need to constantly be looking at the functioning of this wiki and to encourage people to use correct and consistent linking, it is a job and a sometimes tedious job to make sure things are correctly linked and function and many of these jobs can't be performed by a bot.

Whenever major changes to wiki policy or to naming formats or other elements of this wiki there have been, usually extensive forum discussions concerning each change.

With regard to your examples though, the Doctor Who Adventures comic strip stories vs say Martha Jones/Smith are different as for Martha we would have in-universe information for it "existing" within the universe, while the for comic stories it's something we're creating so we have a page for that stuff.

As I said at the start of this message, Wikipedia has a lot of stuff bolted down, because they've worked out their naming structures and policies. But we haven't (or when we had it was inconsistent), because we're not Wikipedia we have rules that fly in the face of Wikipedia (and most of these were by forum discussion/decision). I hope this has answered your questions, if not, please leave me a message and I'll try to address any issues. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:06, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

More concerns

I'm really not sure what the issue is.

The Tardis:Disambiguation policy is quite clear.

I fail to see how it's hard to find either The End of Time stories. Type The End of Time into the search box and two articles are auto-suggested.

There needs to be 3 similarly named things to create a disambig page. If we were to keep Judgement Day as a link people would begin using it as the link to either of those story pages without realising that it is wrong.

Please message me back if I'm failing to see something, but as one of the admins who frequently went through the What Links Here pages of many articles that have been mis-named or mistaken for the wrong page, this policy really helps in the building and maintaining of the wiki. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:57, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'd second TD, here. There's no need for a dab page when only two articles exist with the same name. Autosuggest prompts for either the novel or the TV story.

I will admit, however, that things have very recently become more difficult with respect to bypassing the autosuggest. But the fact that, as of today, you don't get results from typing "the end of time" into the search bar is not the fault of this wiki. When operating normally, rejecting the autosuggest and searching for "the end of time" would bring up both the TV story as your first option and the novel as the second. Clearly, Wikia have altered the way that the search function works, and we'll just have to wait for them to clear it up.

As a general rule, though, it doesn't involve any more keystrokes for the user to choose from a search-generated list than from a dab page. And, it reduces the number of "false" blue links by forcing editors to link to the proper "The End of Time" article.

Finally, I'd be careful to characterise someone as "outraged" on the basis of a mere edit summary. From a technical standpoint, capitalisation is the most convenient way to express emphasis in an edit summary, since most normal wiki markup is not allowed, and since character length is limited. You can't bold or italicise edit summary text (and even if you could, it would take up 4-6 characters). I certainly wasn't "outraged" in my deletion rationale.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 19:35: Sat 03 Dec 2011 

Your input is needed!

You are invited to join the discussion at Forum:Can we disable visual editor please?.

czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 23:05: Wed 21 Dec 2011