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| == Magnus is supposed to be The Master! ==
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| https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/rec.arts.drwho/zR5mKB0Lqpg
| | == Reverted edits == |
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| '''Gary Russell'''
| | I have reverted the edits made by [[user:41.133.47.166]] to this page and [[the War Chief]], [[The War Games]] and [[the Master]]. Several months ago this user tried to make his point on several talk pages, but failed to provide convincing evidence per this wiki's rules. I reverted the edits and suggested he try the forums; as he did not do so, I've reverted his edits again. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:21, January 29, 2014 (UTC) |
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| > >Jefferson Eng wrote:
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| > >>
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| > >> Great, now my enjoyment of the book has been ruined thanks to even yet
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| > >> another AOL user......
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| > >>
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| > >> You know who you are.
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| > >>
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| > >
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| > >I agree with you in principal, but this spoiler was pretty
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| > >insignificant,
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| > >particularly since you pick up on that particular piece of information
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| > >the instant that the character in question appears in the book.
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| > >
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| > >Everything else in the book relating to that character comes from an
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| > >already-televised story. It isn't quite like the _Autumn Mist_ spoiler,
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| > >which ruins one of the most effectinve scenes in the book and tips
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| > >you off to the true nature of the antagonists far too early.
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| > >
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| > >deX!
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| > >
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| > Very true. I was going to make a post (still will eventunately) about
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| some of
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| > the names in the Deca. The thought of spoiler space came to mind but then I
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| > thought - what is it spoiling? - nothing really.
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| > I've seen the name Magnus used before (other than Magnus Greel from "Talons
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| > of Weing Chang") He was a timelord in another story. Perhaps a novel. Anyone
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| > remember which one?
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| He was in a strip I commissioned from Warwick Gray for the Time Lord
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| special I did at Marvel. In Wick's original, he was called Magus and meant
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| to be the Master but I cocked it up and called him Magnus. When Dave
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| McIntee created Koschei, it struck me on re-reading Wick's strip that the
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| character could just as easily, if not better, be the War Chief. Which he
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| is in DL.
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| gee
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| So Mag(n)us is [[The Master]]. Russell retconned him to be [[The War Chief]]. However, that sequence in [[Divided Loyalties]] is unquestionably a dream. One could also argue(as many have), that Divided Loyalties is set in a non-existent gap between [[The Visitation]] and [[Black Orchid]], that it contradicts both [[The Celestial Toymaker]] and [[The Nightmare Fair]]. that [[The Doctor]] had never heard the name [[Koschei]] before [[The Dark Path]], or that Divided Loyalties claims that [[The Monk]] left [[Gallifrey]] BEFORE The Doctor. Clearly the Magnus here needs to be a redirect to [[The Master]], as well as the [[Flashback]] article corrected. [[Special:Contributions/41.133.0.18|41.133.0.18]]<sup>[[User talk:41.133.0.18#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:31, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
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| ::Ah... I think I understand... Somewhat... But this will need discussion before change is done. The comic definitely seems like it was written for the Master, but the character looks like the War Chief. Greatly. And sense he retconned the character later into the War Chief, we can't change him to the Master now... Was he suggesting that the Master and the War Chief were the same person? At most, I think this needs a behind the scenes notice, nothing more. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 19:03, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
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| But the point is that when Warwick "Scott" Gray wrote Flashback(comic) the two major characters were The Doctor(Thete) and '''The Master'''(Magnus). If someone can find an interview with Gray or a review of the comic story Flashback, it will identify that Time Lord as an early incarnation of The Master. Other sites refer to it as a "Master origin" story. Whatever Russell later did or didn't do is irrelevant. The point is that Gray wrote that character as The Master, everyone who read it identified it as The Master. and other wikis/websites etc. describe it as a Doctor/Master story.Of course, Divided Loyalties doesn't specifically state that "Deca member x grew up to be the name Time Lord known as y". The rationale that most people use is that "Koschei" was identified as The Master in The Dark Path, and Magnus talks about The War Lords. However, again a)Divided Loyalties could be used as a game of "Spot The Continuity Error" for the obsessive fan and, more importantly, b)the entire Deca sequence is a dream. We already know that other elements in the dream are incorrect, eg. Mortimus leaving Gallifrey before The Doctor/The Doctor knowing the name "Koschei" here when he doesn't even hear it until The Dark Path etc. We can thus surmise that this entire dream sequence contains "factual errors" as nobody's dreams are 100 per cent accurate representations of true events. Everyone's dreams get people/places/times muddled up. Especially if [[The Celestial Toymaker]] is involved! Thus, the only TRUE representation of Magnus is in Flashback(comic), and its author unambiguously stated that it's The Master. [[Special:Contributions/41.133.0.18|41.133.0.18]]<sup>[[User talk:41.133.0.18#top|talk to me]]</sup> 12:19, November 2, 2012 (UTC)
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| Also interesting that you made the The War Chief=The Master deduction there. Going by real-world interviews with [[Malcolm Hulke]](writer of [[The War Games]], [[Colony in Space]], [[The Sea Devils]] and [[Frontier in Space]] among many others) and [[Robert Holmes]](writer of [[Terror of the Autons]], [[The Deadly Assassin]], [[The Ultimate Foe]] among many many others), the implications are very very strong that it's the same guy. The [[Target Books]] novelisations of, in particular, [[The War Games]], [[Terror of the Autons]] and [[Doctor Who and the The Doomsday Weapon]] make that case seem a no-brainer. And the Autons novelisation was by none other than [[Terrance Dicks]], who also edited the other books. Certainly, the only evidence AGAINST them being different incarnations of the same Time Lord is...Divided Loyalties! Which, as we illustrated, is only in a hopelessly jumbled-up Toymaker-induced dream sequence, where various "facts" are known beyond any doubt to be wrong. Thus there is nothing that really prevents [[The War Chief]] and [[The Master]] being the same Time Lord. Only the Russell-written factually-impaired Toymaker-induced dream sequence in a novel that exists in a "narrative gap" that never existed in the first place! [[Special:Contributions/41.133.0.18|41.133.0.18]]<sup>[[User talk:41.133.0.18#top|talk to me]]</sup> 12:26, November 2, 2012 (UTC)
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