Howling:Order Of Regeneration

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I'm just curious. With the Eighth Doctor regenerating into the War Doctor, then where does he fit in the order of the Doctor's lives? If the War Doctor is the official Doctor, then the Doctors from Eccelson onward are bumped up one. That makes the Twelveth Doctor into the Thirteenth Doctor? Has anyone noticed this?Sefiros ☎ 15:42, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, plenty of people have noticed this, but there is enough evidence to suggest that, while it would increase their "incarnation number" by one, their "Doctor number" would remain the same, as the War Doctor was "the one who broke the promise" of the name "the Doctor", and Clara said that the book on the history of the Time War called him by a different name. —BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run." 17:11, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

Clara apparently discovered the Doctor's real name in that book. The exact circumstances of that are unclear but it didn't just say the War Doctor (stupid alternative).DCT ☎ 16:47, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

For the "War Doctor", the BBC just needed a title for the credits of a minisode prequel that wouldn't spoil anything big in the 50th. On a similar note, they kept the credits name for "Thomas Thomas" from The Crimson Horror (the kid who gave Strax directions to Sweetville) as "Urchin Boy" to keep secret the joking reference to the TomTom GPS. —BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run." 18:02, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

It was explicitly stated that the Hurt incarnation did NOT take the name "The Doctor". It's the same Time Lord, but Eccleston is still Nine, Tennant Ten etc. Time Lords do not use the same name for every incarnation. As an example, not all incarnations of The Master have been called 'The Master'.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 41.132.178.90 (talk).

The numeration of The Doctors remains the same, but the matter of regenerations allowed is still at issue. Until we learn that Mohila & The Sisterhood did something clever which affects a Time Lord's potential for regeneration (or some such thing) whether or not Hurt calls himself," The Doctor," he still uses up a regeneration, and following McGann, must precede Eccelston. Though of course there could be yet another Non-Doctor, except 11 says that "he is my secret."Phil Stone ☎ 01:56, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Plus, there probably wouldn't be another 'non-Doctor' simply because Moffat's using the 50th Anniversary Special to introduce one such incarnation, and it would be a near insult for someone to just say, "Y'know that guy who was the Doctor, but not the Doctor, that everyone made such a big deal about? Yeah, there's another one of 'em over there." —BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run." 02:13, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Well, yeah, that was the point. Christopher Eccleston is still the Ninth Doctor, David Tennant the Tenth Doctor etc. But Eccleston is the tenth incarnation of that Time Lord, Tennant the eleventh etc. How is that so hard to figure out? (unsigned)

Personally I'm going to get around it by calling him 8.5. Or maybe just The War Doctor. 87.102.91.126^{talk to me} 12:40, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

For all we know, he might not count as an actual regeneration either, since he was induced by the Sisterhood on Karn's "advanced Timelord Science" or whatever they said. For all we know, he's a freebie. We won't know until later what happens, and I'm pretty sure most of 12's story is going to be him finding Gallifrey and dealing with his regeneration limit. Vohn exel ☎ 13:34, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Technically, there has already been another "non-Doctor". The Valeyard. I'm actually in the process of starting a new thread regarding this.

--Saghan ☎ 07:37, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

I wonder when John Hurt/War Doctor came into the picture. Did Moffat's original script included Eccleston but when he said "NO" it was changed introduce this new/forgotten incarnation? Maybe this is slightly off-topic but it's an interesting "what if?" discussion. Jedted ☎ 07:57, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

My only problem with that is, who would ever say no to coming back to Doctor Who? He's had nothing but kind things to say about the experience. I can possibly see him having been busy, but even in that case there would have been time between Name of the Doctor and Day of the Doctor to work it out. I'm hoping they're secretly using this as a plot device to not only bring back the Time War, but to possibly later explain how the Valeyard comes about. (After further explaining the events of Night of the Doctor, that is.)

Are you being ironic. Christopher Eccleston is already on record as objecting to various events that went on behind the scenes. It's doubtful Moffat ever intended to use the 9th for the "secret" incarnation. He's too lyrical about his love of that idea and it being 9th wouldn't work at all.DCT ☎ 16:56, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry guys, but John Hurt was only the beginning. Now Moffat has decided to mess around with the order of regeneration even more: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/11/26/matt-smith-is-the-13th-doctor. 87.102.91.126^{talk to me} 20:32, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well to be honest this is hardly surprising. Since, as some imagined, the Hurt incarnation was clearly redeemed in the Anniversary special he can obviously no longer be discounted. And, as we also new, the Doctor is set to have a grave on Trenzalore that needs addressing giving him all his incarnations before he gets there also seems unsurprising. But nevermind, we know he'll "survive" although it does change the understanding of the term "fall of the eleventh." But there's another thread on this so lets put all further discussion there.DCT ☎ 13:25, November 28, 2013 (UTC)