Talk:Twelfth Doctor: Difference between revisions

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== Redirect question ==
{{subpage tabs}}
Does this mean the redirection will be put back up[[User:Sinefirt|Sinefirt]] <sup>[[User talk:Sinefirt|talk to me]]</sup> 14:34, December 30, 2011 (UTC)


:No. The article was supposition and any information contained was better covered elsewhere. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 14:43, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
{{ArchCat}}


But what about the redirection: Ya'know the thing where you type in "Twelfth Doctor" and it's redirected to The Doctor#The Doctor's incarnations.[[User:Sinefirt|Sinefirt]] <sup>[[User talk:Sinefirt|talk to me]]</sup> 10:57, December 31, 2011 (UTC)[http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=The_Doctor&action=edit&section=11 ]
== Removed from lead ==


==Suggested additions==
Removed this part again from the lead:
Now that the casting of Capaldi as the Twelfth Doctor is fair game, the behind the scenes section should be added to explain how his initial appearance was successfully kept secret (and in fact mirrors the pre-introduction of Clara). If it's been revealed when he filmed it, that should be added too. Both bits of info can be put in without violating spoiler policy re: the Christmas special. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.70.124|68.146.70.124]]<sup>[[User talk:68.146.70.124#top|talk to me]]</sup> 04:15, November 24, 2013 (UTC)


Can we add his image from The Day of The Doctor? I got this screenshot which would work fine. (link removed per site policy) [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:52, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
: Unique amongst his incarnations, the Twelfth Doctor would not travel full time with the large majority of his companions, with some like [[Clara Oswald]] and [[Bill Potts]] taking breaks from the TARDIS between travels, some like [[Hattie Munroe]] taking the occasional trip, and some like [[Jata]] being involved in various side quests during a longer trip.


:No, it wouldn't work. It violates several policies, and it's off-site, which we don't allow. Please read our image policies at [[Tardis:Image use policy]], [[Tardis:Guide to images]], [[Help:Image cheat card]] and [[Tardis:Images and perspective]]. Thanks! [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:23, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
There's several narrative breaks where Amy and Rory leave and return, allowing for gaps for non-televised companions: at the end of their honeymoon (prior to ''[[The Impossible Astronaut (TV story)|The Impossible Astronaut]]''); after Melody disappears in ''[[A Good Man Goes to War (TV story)|A Good Man Goes to War]]''; after they're given a new house and car in ''[[The God Complex (TV story)|The God Complex]]''; and every story or close to that in series 7 (and the 2013 specials) has Amy, Rory and Clara (minus ''[[The Snowmen (TV story)|The Snowmen]]'', which is technically a one-off for Victorian Clara) divided between home life and "Doctor life". -- [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] ([[User talk:Tybort|talk page]]) 00:51, October 6, 2017 (UTC)
:The removed information is too open to dispute to be put in the lead. It should not be added back to the lead. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:06, October 6, 2017 (UTC)


::I should have been clearer. I was asking for someone to do the formatting for me since I was unfamiliar with the image rules here, which seem to contradict themselves in minor ways throughout the site after taking a look at them now. Here is a 300px wide screenshot from the episode, but I am having trouble trying to change the file name, and am not sure if it matters. http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vlcsnap-2013-11-26-18h43m44s136.jpg Are there any other requirements for this? I added the proper license (BBC owned screenshot license and all that jazz). My apologies if I am pestering you. I perused the links you posted, but some of it is admittedly confusing. It's been a while since I added an image here. - [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:39, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
== Red button on his jacket sleeve: why we should consider breaking up this article ==
Before we get into a full-blown [[T:NO WARS|'''edit war''']] about [[Special:Diff/2459640]], I just wanted to jump in and hopefully calm the waters a bit. First off, the IP editor is correct in his or her statement. Yes, Twelve did have a single red button on the hoodie-jacket worn prominently in S9. If using the US iTunes copy of ''[[The Witch's Familiar (TV story)|The Witch's Familiar]]'', you can quite clearly see this button on the left cuff at 46'28" and on the right at 46'37".


:::The image rules don't contradict each other; the issue is that so many people don't know the rules, and only admins can delete images so it's a tough job to keep up with. The image you mention above of Capaldi seems to be ok except that the name needs to be more clear. The current name tells absolutely nothing about the image. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:00, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
However, [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] used sound editorial judgment in excising it from the article. It's quite trivial to the Twelfth Doctor article. If we had an article called, say, [[Twelfth Doctor's apparel]] -- and really, maybe we should have an article like this for each Doctor -- then it would be much more relevant. So a part of the reason I'm writing this note is to preserve the information left by the IP editor so that it might be incorporated later into such an article.


:::: I just asked how to change the image name. I could not find how for the life of me. [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:45, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
As things are, however, these Doctor articles are ''huge'' and present real problems for our mobile visitors, especially those on slow connections. We should use this incident to consider ways to break up our larger articles into more specific chunks, rather than continuing to add every little detail to already-bloated pages. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}} 19:07: Thu 08 Feb 2018</span>
:::::That would be because non-admins cannot move files. [[Special:ListGroupRights]] (movefile). Shambala, could you rename the file to something like [[:File:TwelfthDoctorTDOTD]]?<br>--[[user:SmallerOnTheOutside|SOTO]] [[User talk:SmallerOnTheOutside|☎]] 05:56, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


:::: Amazing how after all that, an admin decided to use an image that does not conform to the image guidelines immediately after I was tersely quoted the rules here... "Total file size - Ordinary screenshots should never be more than 100kb; most are completely fine at 20-40kb." The image linked to in the infobox is 7 times that size, and the infobox scale down is STILL over 100kb. Why did I just waste time conforming my image to the rules when we can decide to use any old non conforming image? I don't WANT to be a dick here, but this is rather frustrating and does not encourage user submissions when approached like this. I'd be happy if someone else's image were used, assuming it followed the guidelines that I was just told were clear as day. [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:35, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
== The Day of the Doctor? ==
:Hey everyone :)  Bit of confusion here, so lemme clarify some points.  First, Thor here encountered the changed environment of the VisualEditor. Unfortunately, it's temporarily possible to upload stuff and bypass our warnings. I don't have a good way to fix that yet, since the VisualEditor is in deep beta. So Thor's confusion was completely understandable. Equally, Shamabala's terse explanations would be more understandable in the ''usual'' uploading environment.  We as admin have a right to expect that people are reading big signs with large letters. But, unbeknownst to Shambala and SOTO, those big signs with large letters aren't there for people using the VE. It's important to remember that admin are just as baffled by the vagaries of the new VE as are users, so confusion will occasionally arise.
When is it established that the events of The Day of the Doctor take place during Deep Breath for Twelve? {{Unsigned-anon|104.175.51.158 }}


:One of the main questions asked here was simply about how to change the filename. We have an easy way to do that.  Just use {{tlx|spelt|new name}}.  This will put the article into [[:Category:Files that need to be renamed]], and admin will then be alerted to the need to move it to a better name. (Non-admin can't move files.)
:: Onscreen evidence. The TARDIS interior, as much we see of it, is still the Matt Smith interior, so it can only happen before he redesigned it.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:16, July 9, 2019 (UTC)


:Finally, a little clarity on this statement: "...an admin decided to use an image does not conform to the image guidelines". Admin didn't place a policy violating image on the page; rather I deleted a bad image and substituted the current, policy-''compliant'' one.  But don't worry about that; page histories are sometimes hard to read. There's been a compliant image there since 25 November. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}} 04:44: Fri 13 Dec 2013</span>
== River Song as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse ==


::Thank you CzechOut for the rather kind response to my irate post and the follow up on my talk page. You effectively covered everything and accurately predicted unmentioned issues I was experiencing without laying blame, which is refreshing. For those who may be visiting this talk page as one of your first talk pages, this is how admins should ideally act. I thought I remembered the image use guidelines to be much more accessible when I uploaded the image of Cpt. Jack's desk from Torchwood with the TARDIS coral on it, but it had been quite a while since then. In retrospect, Shambala's reply would have been completely acceptable were the editor in the environment you described. Have a good day, all. [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:13, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
Hi. I've seen a fair few edits now of River Song being removed and re-added to the infobox as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse, so I thought I would put in a friendly request for people to battle it out here in the talk page rather than edit warring. Or perhaps an admin could give a ruling on whether or not River should be included in the infobox? Thanks. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:32, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
== Image problem ==
: Alternatively, join the conversation at [[Thread:277456]]. -- [[User:Jack "BtR" Saxon|Saxon]] ([[User talk:Jack "BtR" Saxon|✉️]]) 11:46, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
Not sure if this is now to leave a message, but it seems to be the only way. Usually there's a 'leave a message' button at the top. The image of Twelve could use some fixing, since its horribly stretched. I don't know how to do it, so I'll leave it up to someone that does.
:: Ah sweet there is already a thread happening. That's a much better option. Sorry I didn't realise. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:49, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
[[User:Near-sighted Jedi|Near-sighted Jedi]] [[User talk:Near-sighted Jedi|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:48, February 14, 2014 (UTC)


:There is nothing wrong with the image of 12. [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:52, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
== Infobox image question ==
::I agree with Thor214, there's nothing wrong with the image's dimensions. It may be a problem with your browser? [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:07, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
Currently, the Infobox image is this.
<gallery>
TwelveLooksAtMissy.jpg|The current image.
</gallery>
Now, I think this is a very ''good'' image, and I don't intend to try to change it. However, the crop... isn't ''optimal''.


== Is he 12? ==
Firstly, there is a fair bit of "dead space" to the left of the image, which not only looks a bit skewed, it also causes the Doctor's head to be on the far right, making the thumbnail image crop out the side of Twelve's head.


Is he truly Twelve? The Time Lords noted that all 13 Doctors were there, and after noting 13, we saw Capaldi's Doctor.  further, with the acceptance of Hurt's Doctor, that would seem to imply that Hurt is now 9.  Is this going to affect the conventions? I think it may be too early to definitely title this as The Twelfth Doctor just yet, it may be addressed at Christmas. [[User:RobbieNewton|RobbieNewton]] [[User talk:RobbieNewton|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:25, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Secondly, the current crop is not compliant with [[T:GTI]] - the crop omits a good chunk of Twelve's forehead, and as the forehead is ''part'' of the face, it the crop should not go beyond that. T:GTI states that images should be cropped in on an individual's face, not just on the mouth, nose, and eyes.
:Addressing him as Thirteen is also a bit premature until we know more. You can visit [[Thread:145487]] for information on how we're dealing with this for now. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:41, November 24, 2013 (UTC)


::Thanks, thats an interesting way of dealing with it. [[User:RobbieNewton|RobbieNewton]] [[User talk:RobbieNewton|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:15, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
So, I would like suggest this cropping of the image to replace the current one.
<gallery>
TwelveLooksAtMissy2.jpg|My proposed crop of the image.
</gallery>


Most fans aren't gonna just turn around call Tennant the 11th and Smith the 12th so it's better to just think of John Hurt as 'Doctor 8.5'.  At least that's how i see it.[[User:Jedted|Jedted]] [[User talk:Jedted|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:30, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
I look forward to other users' input. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 10:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
:The cropped image looks good to me. The only improvement I could think of would be to ''maybe'' crop a little off the bottom so the image is less square, but that's just personal preference. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


::According to Moffat & Co., the team (and even the scripts) continue to call Smith the Eleventh Doctor, and Capaldi the Twelfth.  Unless he outright calls himself the "thirteenth Doctor", it's best to leave Hurt as his credited title of "War Doctor", and the numbering stays intact. '''<font color=#609000>d</font> [[User:Witoki|<font color=#609000>●</font>]][[User_talk:Witoki|<font color=#FF6090><small>●</small></font>]][[Special:Contributions/Witoki|<font color=#6090FF><small><small>●</small></small></font>]]''' 01:19, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
:: The cropped image looks decent but, just so everyone can make an informed decision, the original reasoning for why the specific cropping of the current image was chosen can be found at [[Talk:Twelfth Doctor/Archive 2#Conclusion]]. It also states the allocated time has passed to open up a discussion for an entirely new image if anyone has a good alternative. [[User:Borisashton|Borisashton]] [[User talk:Borisashton|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


:::The site naming conventions can be found here [[Thread:145998]], regardless of what official sources say, as a standardised method for naming is important for mass changes later, should they be addressed (think Ctrl + F'ing the entire body of text on the site and replacing old numbers with new ones). - [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:43, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
::: Yeah, uh, once again, something that @[[User:CzechOut|CzechOut]] said hasn't aged well.
::: The FANDOM app has gone under... changes... since CzechOut's ruling; now, the image is at its ''worst'' on the mobile app.
<gallery>
File:TwelveWinnerMobileFinal.jpg|In 2017.
Screenshot 20220209-144429 FANDOM-min.jpg|In 2022.
</gallery>
::: See the issue?
::: I really do believe that we should fix this with my crop. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 14:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


Uhm...
:: That screenshot from the FANDOM app really clinches that ''some'' change was necessary. '''The new, forehead-including crop has been implemented.'''


: Like the War Doctor, the Twelfth Doctor unusually debuted on television before his regeneration from his predecessor was screened.


Only partially true. Is "Night of the Doctor" assumed to be "screened"? - Even if so, the same applies to the [[Ninth Doctor]]. "Unusually" is getting a bit unusual, eh? [[User:Tuxman|Tuxman]] [[User talk:Tuxman|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:35, December 1, 2013 (UTC)
:: That being said, while I personally think that (crop notwithstanding) this remains a very good image, I want to make it clear that this is not a resolution ''against'' potentially putting forward an all-new image, if anybody has suggestions. <span style="color: #baa3d6;font-family:Comic Sans;">[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']]</span> <span style="color: #baa3d6;">[[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]]</span> 14:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
:The War Doctor (or a timestream echo of him) also appeared in ''The Name of the Doctor'' before the Eighth Doctor was seen again. [[User:ProtoKun7|ProtoKun7]] [[User talk:ProtoKun7|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:39, December 13, 2013 (UTC)


== Doctor Who and the Curse of Fatal Death (1999) ==
== Update the link in description in "Clean up" template  ==


Shouldn't there be something about "This article is about the twelfth incarnation of the Doctor from "The Day of the Doctor".  For the Doctor Who and the Curse of Fatal Death character, see "Twelfth Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)"? [[Special:Contributions/108.236.90.188|108.236.90.188]]<sup>[[User talk:108.236.90.188#top|talk to me]]</sup> 23:48, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
In "Clean up" template, there is "As detailed at [[Thread:264489]], to avoid overly long articles, highly-recurring character pages' biography should only have AT MOST 2-3 sentences per story, not whole paragraphs of plot detail. This page needs a major cleanup in that area." However, the update of FANDOM causes links like <nowiki>[[Thread:264489]]</nowiki> is no longer supported now. Could someone fix the problem? [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
:The pages for Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Doctors don't, so no. {{User:Digifiend/SigReal|00:12,13/12/2013}}


== Two Regenerations or Twelve? ==
: Thing is, is that we don't really have anythang to change it to. All of the info was in that Forum thread we can no longer access.


When the eleventh was dying the time lords breached threw the crack in time and resumed his face changing cycle. Does this mean he can double his lives or was it just two more they added just so he can die at 13? --[[Special:Contributions/106.68.236.181|106.68.236.181]]<sup>[[User talk:106.68.236.181#top|talk to me]]</sup> 12:59, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
: Furthermore, we are waiting for one admin to bring back the Forums, as he claimed he had made an archive prior to the Forums becoming inaccessible, but the guy has been making empty promises for well over a year now. While things are stagnating in this Forum-limbo, there just isn't much we can do, as frustrating it is. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 13:57, 12 June 2022 (UTC)


:The actual answer is unknown, but precedent says that they tend to give full cycles of regeneration, a la the offer to The Master during The Five Doctors. The [[Regeneration]] article states that he was given a full cycle, so that talk page may be a more fruitful place to ask. [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:49, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
:: Thank you for responding. I suppose it may be currently the only way to solve the problem. [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:07, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
:: Also, I feel that archiving websites may contain the archived thread. You may be able to find archived version in these websites. [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC)


:Before assuming his new face, the Doctor calls it a "whole new regeneration cycle", so at least he clearly assumes this to be the case. [[Special:Contributions/78.54.48.120|78.54.48.120]]<sup>[[User talk:78.54.48.120#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:16, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
::: A few threads can be found on the Wayback Machine but by no means all. The forums were just not visited enough for most threads to be archived automatically. Moreover, when threads are on there, they often don't include the very end of the thread which is often the important bit with the closing post. There are some tricks you can use to access the old threads but they're not particularly easy to use. It's a really annoying situation. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:48, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


: I remember that thread and can explain. The conclusion was that [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] decreed that character pages should only have 2-3 sentences per story. There was no guidance for how to actually implement this, so very few people have tried.


== The Twelfth Doctor is the fourteenth incarnation, not the thirteenth ==
: One approach has been pages for specific events, like [[Operation Mannequin]], or larger "eras" in the Doctor's life, like [[Exile on Earth]] and [[The Doctor's early life]]. But I'm not sure if any parts of Twelve's life could be split off in that way.


 
: Another possible idea would be using subpages: [[Twelfth Doctor/Biography]] could go as in-depth as possible, in which case [[Twelfth Doctor#Biography]] would provide a broad overview. But an in-universe subpage like this would be unprecedented and probably shouldn't be done without a larger discussion with admins. – [[User:NateBumber|n8]] ([[User talk:NateBumber|☎]]) 14:31, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
In ''The Time of the Doctor'', the Eleventh Doctor confirmed to Clara that he is, in fact, the thirteenth incarnation because the Tenth's metacrisis regeneration was still a full one, in which he managed to keep his face out of vanity. He later calls the first of his new regeneration cycle "Regeneration Number Thirteen." Shouldn't we change the Twelfth Doctor's brief description at the beginning of the article to "fourteenth incarnation" to reflect this more accurately?
 
--[[User:SMBComix|SMBComix]] [[User talk:SMBComix|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:19, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Can the healed Tennant Doctor be considered a new incarnation? 13th regeneration, but also 13th face/actor. (numbers edited)
:--[[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:29, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
 
:He clearly is considered such not just by the team behind the scenes but by the Doctor as well. The progression is now as follows: 1.) William Hartnell, First; 2.) Patrick Troughton, Second; 3.) Jon Pertwee, Third; 4.) Tom Baker, Fourth; 5.) Peter Davison, Fifth; 6.) Colin Baker, Sixth; 7.) Sylvester McCoy, Seventh; 8.) Paul McGann, Eighth; 9.) John Hurt, War; 10.) Christopher Eccleston, Ninth; 11.) David Tennant, Tenth; 12.) David Tennant, technically still tenth but the metacrisis used up a full regeneration even though he aborted the physical change; 13.) Matt Smith, Eleventh; 14.) Peter Capaldi, Twelfth. The numeric numbers are the incarnations themselves, the phonetic numbers are the hierarchy.
--[[User:SMBComix|SMBComix]] [[User talk:SMBComix|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 07:09, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
::No offense intended, but we will need to see that information cited specifically. The Doctor does not specify the numbering of incarnations in Time of The Doctor, just the number of regenerations. Do you have anything addressing the number of incarnations, or just related counts like regeneration and the commonly accepted numbering. If he is indeed clearly considered as such, it is going to need to be cited in the Wikia entry anyway. I haven't read recent interviews, so I am legitimately asking for that information.
 
::Additionally, this is something that should be brought to the attention of an admin if you feel it needs to be changed, since [[Thread:145998]] addresses this. Also, I fucking love SMBC.
::--[[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:18, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
:::He does mention the numbering of incarnations when he says "13 versions of me, 13 silly Doctors", and also the numbering of Doctors when he refers to Tennant's Doctor as "Number 10" (he says "Number 10 once regenerated and kept the same face"), excluding the War Doctor from the "official" numbering.
:::--[[User:Madarjeen|Madarjeen]] [[User talk:Madarjeen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:55, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
::::"Thirteen versions" are what would happen under normal circumstances. He was speaking of the ordinary procedure, which is not how it turned out for him. The eleventh regeneration was siphoned away before it could change his body, and so the Tenth Doctor (eleventh incarnation) remained in his eleventh body. Regeneration does not produce an identical body, and if it had changed his body, there would not have been sufficient energy for the duplicate body to be created at all. The Twelfth Doctor is definitely the thirteenth incarnation. [[User:ProtoKun7|ProtoKun7]] [[User talk:ProtoKun7|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:19, January 2, 2014 (UTC)
 
::Let's look at the word 'incarnation'.  It refers to a ''body'' not necesarily the result of healing:
::First Doctor=First incarnation (body)=First regeneration (at death)
::Second Doctor=Second incarnation=Second regeneration
::Third Doctor=Third incarnation=Third regeneration
::Fourth Doctor=Fourth incarnation=Fourth regeneration
:::Watcher=Fourth and a half incarnation=Fourth regeneration
::Fifth Doctor=Fifth incarnation=Fifth regeneration
::Sixth Doctor=Sixth incarnation=Sixth regeneration
::Seventh Doctor=Seventh incarnation=Seventh regeneration
::Eighth Doctor=Eighth incarnation=Eighth regeneration
::Warrior=Ninth incarnation=Ninth regeneration
::Ninth Doctor=Tenth incarnation=Tenth regeneration
::Tenth Doctor=Eleventh incarnation=Eleventh & Twelfth regenerations
::Eleventh Doctor=Twelfth incarnation=Thirteenth regeneration
Thus:
::Twelfth Doctor=Thirteenth incarnation=Fourteenth regeneration.
--[[Special:Contributions/104.32.214.184|104.32.214.184]]<sup>[[User talk:104.32.214.184#top|talk to me]]</sup> 20:34, April 30, 2014 (UTC)
 
==The Gift==
 
In the book "The Gift" it's noted that all the incarnations of the Doctor go to the Brigadier's funeral, shouldn't the be added here?
 
:Friendly reminder: don't forget to sign your posts, Sabovia.
:Anyway, on to the topic. Unless it is mentioned in every other Doctor's wikia article, then the answer is most likely no. The book saying ALL the incarnations go to the funeral is a bit of a copout, as it tries to establish canon for future events. Unless an admin specifically gives it the OK, I wouldn't suggest that it is an event that we can reliably say occurred.
:[[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:48, January 1, 2014 (UTC)
 
:It is referenced on every signal Doctor page, so It should be added.
:[[User:Sabovia|Sabovia]] [[User talk:Sabovia|<span title="Talk to me">Talk</span>]] 06:48, January 1, 2014 (UTC)
:: It might be worth reviewing whether the other references should actually be kept. Just because something is on every other Doctor's page doesn't mean it's actually correct to have it there. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.70.124|68.146.70.124]]<sup>[[User talk:68.146.70.124#top|talk to me]]</sup> 05:39, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 
This issue is addressed in [[Thread:149557]]. Basically, since the author/publisher of ''The Gift'' does not have the rights to portray any BBC Wales Doctor, then those Doctors cannot be included as part of the "all". [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:46, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
* I don't think that's true, as Big Finish makes subtle references to BBC Wales Doctors all the time, and the BBC Books novel The King of Terror - published in 2000 - makes reference to the Brigadier having met 10 Doctors. However, taking on-screen canon into account, the short story in question has the FIRST Doctor talking about all his incarnations meeting the Brigadier. As the Doctor, until the final moments of his Eleventh (or Twelfth, counting War Doctor) incarnation, lived under the assumption he would not have any further incarnations beyond that number, there is no way the First Doctor would be at all aware of a Twelfth or a Fiftieth Doctor for that matter attending the funeral, so we cannot assume any Doctors beyond Eleven attended based on such scant evidence. If Robert Dick writes a revised version of the story for later publication, then let's revisit the idea. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.70.124|68.146.70.124]]<sup>[[User talk:68.146.70.124#top|talk to me]]</sup> 14:53, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
 
==Body==
The article, in BTS section, doesn't mention the Ninth Doctor's comment about his ears. --[[User:Danniesen|DCLM]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:09, February 1, 2014 (UTC)
* He didn't make that comment immediately after regenerating, so it doesn't count in this context. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.70.124|68.146.70.124]]<sup>[[User talk:68.146.70.124#top|talk to me]]</sup> 14:54, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
 
== The Gift2 ==
 
Sorry to put this here under a seperate subject, but I can't figure out how to reply under the original headline.
 
In ''[[The Gift (short story)|The Gift]]'' [[First Doctor|he]] says that ''all'' his incarnations would be there.  Now, I agree that this '''doesn't''' mean that he knew about anything else, and just that he had been there an seen thirteen incarnations, '''but''', he also probably didn't know that [[Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor|he didn't change]], therefore he saw '''thirteen''', and just assumed that they were from the same (one and only) cycle, thus seeing:
 
himself ([[First Doctor|the First Doctor]])
his second self ([[Second Doctor|the Second Doctor]])
his third self ([[Third Doctor|the Third Doctor]])
his fourth self ([[Fourth Doctor|the Fourth Doctor]])
his [[The Watcher|fully]] fifth self ([[Fifth Doctor|the Fifth Doctor]])
his sixth self ([[Sixth Doctor|the Sixth Doctor]])
his seventh self ([[Seventh Doctor|the Seventh Doctor]])
his eighth self ([[Eighth Doctor|the Eighth Doctor]])
his ninth self ([[War Doctor|the Warrior]], believing him to be the Ninth Doctor)
his tenth self ([[Ninth Doctor|the Ninth Doctor]], believing him to be the Tenth Doctor)
his eleventh self once ([[Tenth Doctor|the Tenth Doctor]], believing him to be the Eleventh Doctor)
his twelfth self ([[Eleventh Doctor|the Eleventh Doctor]], believing him to be the Twelfth Doctor, not knowing about [[Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor|the other regeneration]])
and his thirteenth self ([[Twelfth Doctor|the Twelfth Doctor]], and as he did not know about the other regeneration, he would have believed him to be the Thirteenth (and [[The Curator (The Day of the Doctor)|final]]) Doctor)
that last link is purely theoretical.--[[Special:Contributions/12.230.34.138|12.230.34.138]]<sup>[[User talk:12.230.34.138#top|talk to me]]</sup> 01:42, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
:That's all it is, a theory, so there's zero chance of it being included in the article. {{User:Digifiend/SigReal|01:48,12/2/2014}}
 
::I meant the part about the Curator.  That's for the Howling.--108 as [[Special:Contributions/12.230.34.138|12.230.34.138]]<sup>[[User talk:12.230.34.138#top|talk to me]]</sup> 02:48, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
 
:::No need to start a new topic when replying to an existing one. If you want to edit an existing topic, just click the edit button next to the topic name and make your edit at the end of the comments. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:57, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
 
:::;Thanks, I'll remember that. :) --[[Special:Contributions/108.184.174.38|108.184.174.38]]<sup>[[User talk:108.184.174.38#top|talk to me]]</sup> 23:02, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
 
==Inability to fly TARDIS==
I don't exactly think he was unable to fly the TARDIS. Maybe he said it in case he needed to lay down to finish regenerating and Clara had to fly it on her own. Or maybe he said it because of his temporary amnesia (which he usually suffers from after regeneration). What do you think of my theory. --[[User:Danniesen|DCLM]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:43, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 
:That it is just that, a fan theory. Nothing can conclusively be gathered from less than a minute of screentime for the purposes of a factual and canonical (for the most part) wiki.
:  [[User:Thor214|Thor214]] [[User talk:Thor214|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:01, March 2, 2014 (UTC)
::It is also only a theory I came up with. Of course I know that we can't know it because of that short screen-time, I just thought that it could be a possible reason. --[[User:Danniesen|DCLM]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:12, March 3, 2014 (UTC)
:::Please note that per [[Tardis:Discussion policy]], talk pages are '''absolutely not''' for discussing theories, speculation, fanon and the like. Talk pages are '''only''' for discussing the '''editing''' of an article. Thanks. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:46, March 3, 2014 (UTC)
 
=='Talk About Capaldi's Costume'==
 
Surely that 'TALK ABOUT CAPALDI'S COSTUME' thing is a violation of our spoiler policy? [[User:MrSiriusBlack|MrSiriusBlack]] [[User talk:MrSiriusBlack|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:58, March 2, 2014 (UTC)
:Technically, it's not on our site. The link gives no spoiler-y info, and if you wish to click on it, it takes you off-site. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:13, March 2, 2014 (UTC)
 
== Capaldi is the 13th body ==
 
To the debate above, at first, I did believe the same that he was the 14th body and that Ten was both the 11th and 12th incarnations.
http://doctor-who-tv-series.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/regeneration-rundown.html

Latest revision as of 02:23, 13 March 2024

Archive.png
 Archives: #1, #2

Removed from lead[[edit source]]

Removed this part again from the lead:

Unique amongst his incarnations, the Twelfth Doctor would not travel full time with the large majority of his companions, with some like Clara Oswald and Bill Potts taking breaks from the TARDIS between travels, some like Hattie Munroe taking the occasional trip, and some like Jata being involved in various side quests during a longer trip.

There's several narrative breaks where Amy and Rory leave and return, allowing for gaps for non-televised companions: at the end of their honeymoon (prior to The Impossible Astronaut); after Melody disappears in A Good Man Goes to War; after they're given a new house and car in The God Complex; and every story or close to that in series 7 (and the 2013 specials) has Amy, Rory and Clara (minus The Snowmen, which is technically a one-off for Victorian Clara) divided between home life and "Doctor life". -- Tybort (talk page) 00:51, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

The removed information is too open to dispute to be put in the lead. It should not be added back to the lead. Shambala108 ☎ 01:06, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

Red button on his jacket sleeve: why we should consider breaking up this article[[edit source]]

Before we get into a full-blown edit war about Special:Diff/2459640, I just wanted to jump in and hopefully calm the waters a bit. First off, the IP editor is correct in his or her statement. Yes, Twelve did have a single red button on the hoodie-jacket worn prominently in S9. If using the US iTunes copy of The Witch's Familiar, you can quite clearly see this button on the left cuff at 46'28" and on the right at 46'37".

However, Shambala108 used sound editorial judgment in excising it from the article. It's quite trivial to the Twelfth Doctor article. If we had an article called, say, Twelfth Doctor's apparel -- and really, maybe we should have an article like this for each Doctor -- then it would be much more relevant. So a part of the reason I'm writing this note is to preserve the information left by the IP editor so that it might be incorporated later into such an article.

As things are, however, these Doctor articles are huge and present real problems for our mobile visitors, especially those on slow connections. We should use this incident to consider ways to break up our larger articles into more specific chunks, rather than continuing to add every little detail to already-bloated pages.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  19:07: Thu 08 Feb 2018

The Day of the Doctor?[[edit source]]

When is it established that the events of The Day of the Doctor take place during Deep Breath for Twelve? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 104.175.51.158 (talk).

Onscreen evidence. The TARDIS interior, as much we see of it, is still the Matt Smith interior, so it can only happen before he redesigned it.BananaClownMan ☎ 00:16, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

River Song as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse[[edit source]]

Hi. I've seen a fair few edits now of River Song being removed and re-added to the infobox as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse, so I thought I would put in a friendly request for people to battle it out here in the talk page rather than edit warring. Or perhaps an admin could give a ruling on whether or not River should be included in the infobox? Thanks. LauraBatham ☎ 11:32, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Alternatively, join the conversation at Thread:277456. -- Saxon (✉️) 11:46, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
Ah sweet there is already a thread happening. That's a much better option. Sorry I didn't realise. LauraBatham ☎ 11:49, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Infobox image question[[edit source]]

Currently, the Infobox image is this.

  • The current image.

    The current image.

Now, I think this is a very good image, and I don't intend to try to change it. However, the crop... isn't optimal.

Firstly, there is a fair bit of "dead space" to the left of the image, which not only looks a bit skewed, it also causes the Doctor's head to be on the far right, making the thumbnail image crop out the side of Twelve's head.

Secondly, the current crop is not compliant with T:GTI - the crop omits a good chunk of Twelve's forehead, and as the forehead is part of the face, it the crop should not go beyond that. T:GTI states that images should be cropped in on an individual's face, not just on the mouth, nose, and eyes.

So, I would like suggest this cropping of the image to replace the current one.

  • My proposed crop of the image.

    My proposed crop of the image.

I look forward to other users' input.

10:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

The cropped image looks good to me. The only improvement I could think of would be to maybe crop a little off the bottom so the image is less square, but that's just personal preference. LauraBatham ☎ 13:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
The cropped image looks decent but, just so everyone can make an informed decision, the original reasoning for why the specific cropping of the current image was chosen can be found at Talk:Twelfth Doctor/Archive 2#Conclusion. It also states the allocated time has passed to open up a discussion for an entirely new image if anyone has a good alternative. Borisashton ☎ 13:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, uh, once again, something that @CzechOut said hasn't aged well.
The FANDOM app has gone under... changes... since CzechOut's ruling; now, the image is at its worst on the mobile app.
  • In 2017.

    In 2017.

  • In 2022.

    In 2022.

See the issue?
I really do believe that we should fix this with my crop. 14:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
That screenshot from the FANDOM app really clinches that some change was necessary. The new, forehead-including crop has been implemented.


That being said, while I personally think that (crop notwithstanding) this remains a very good image, I want to make it clear that this is not a resolution against potentially putting forward an all-new image, if anybody has suggestions. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 14:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Update the link in description in "Clean up" template[[edit source]]

In "Clean up" template, there is "As detailed at Thread:264489, to avoid overly long articles, highly-recurring character pages' biography should only have AT MOST 2-3 sentences per story, not whole paragraphs of plot detail. This page needs a major cleanup in that area." However, the update of FANDOM causes links like [[Thread:264489]] is no longer supported now. Could someone fix the problem? Mariogoods ☎ 13:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Thing is, is that we don't really have anythang to change it to. All of the info was in that Forum thread we can no longer access.
Furthermore, we are waiting for one admin to bring back the Forums, as he claimed he had made an archive prior to the Forums becoming inaccessible, but the guy has been making empty promises for well over a year now. While things are stagnating in this Forum-limbo, there just isn't much we can do, as frustrating it is. 13:57, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for responding. I suppose it may be currently the only way to solve the problem. Mariogoods ☎ 22:07, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Also, I feel that archiving websites may contain the archived thread. You may be able to find archived version in these websites. Mariogoods ☎ 23:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
A few threads can be found on the Wayback Machine but by no means all. The forums were just not visited enough for most threads to be archived automatically. Moreover, when threads are on there, they often don't include the very end of the thread which is often the important bit with the closing post. There are some tricks you can use to access the old threads but they're not particularly easy to use. It's a really annoying situation. Bongo50 ☎ 10:48, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
I remember that thread and can explain. The conclusion was that Shambala108 decreed that character pages should only have 2-3 sentences per story. There was no guidance for how to actually implement this, so very few people have tried.
One approach has been pages for specific events, like Operation Mannequin, or larger "eras" in the Doctor's life, like Exile on Earth and The Doctor's early life. But I'm not sure if any parts of Twelve's life could be split off in that way.
Another possible idea would be using subpages: Twelfth Doctor/Biography could go as in-depth as possible, in which case Twelfth Doctor#Biography would provide a broad overview. But an in-universe subpage like this would be unprecedented and probably shouldn't be done without a larger discussion with admins. – n8 (☎) 14:31, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
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