Talk:Kamishi (I Went to a Marvellous Party): Difference between revisions
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If anything, maybe it would make sense to move him to [[The Doctor (I Went to a Marvellous Party)]], since he's not actually called "Mr Song" in the story, just in the credits, and he doesn't give his true name, just tries to pretend he's the Doctor. [[User:JagoAndLitefoot|JagoAndLitefoot]] [[User talk:JagoAndLitefoot|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:25, December 27, 2015 (UTC) | If anything, maybe it would make sense to move him to [[The Doctor (I Went to a Marvellous Party)]], since he's not actually called "Mr Song" in the story, just in the credits, and he doesn't give his true name, just tries to pretend he's the Doctor. [[User:JagoAndLitefoot|JagoAndLitefoot]] [[User talk:JagoAndLitefoot|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:25, December 27, 2015 (UTC) | ||
:I agree, if in-narrative information are to be stronger than behind-the-scenes one. [[User:HarveyWallbanger|HarveyWallbanger]] [[User talk:HarveyWallbanger|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:15, March 13, 2016 (UTC) | |||
: I agree that no variation of '''Mr Song''' can be good since it is not his name and it is not used in-universe. I would also argue against using variations of '''The Doctor''' for similar reasons: | |||
:* he is not the Doctor; | |||
:* he does not look like any incarnation of the Doctor. | |||
: I'm not sure there was another new character trying to impersonate a future incarnation of the Doctor before. But it seems wrong to call an imposter by the name of the one being impersonated, especially if the impersonated character is himself present in-universe. I would propose to use the naming scheme applied to nameless Daleks, Cybermen, etc. In other words, provide the name of the species followed by a descriptor if any. There is already a [[Sanukuma Master]]. This one could be a [[Sanukuma renegade]] or simply [[Sanukuma (I Went to a Marvellous Party)]]. I have, however, a separate doubt regarding the name of the species. I seem to remember that [[Sanukuma]] was not the whole specie but a caste within it responsible for seeding worlds. I will relisten ''Signs'' and ''The Rulers of the Universe'' to make sure and return here with the findings. Meanwhile, since moving pages should be done by admins anyways, I will ask for an opinion of one on the naming issue. [[User:Amorkuz|Amorkuz]] [[User talk:Amorkuz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:17, April 16, 2016 (UTC) | |||
:: UPD. I think I found a good analogy after all: [[Jackson Lake]] from ''[[The Next Doctor (TV story)|The Next Doctor]]''. He did not impersonate the Doctor; he believed himself to be the Doctor, which is even a stronger reason to call him "the Doctor". In both cases, the fake Doctor had an identity prior to becoming "the Doctor" but this identity was not present in DWU. What I mean is: the first time we see both in-universe, they are "the Doctor", and only later their true identity is revealed. In both cases, a major character believed (for some time) that he was a future incarnation of the Doctor: River here and the Tenth Doctor there. The only difference is that there the original identity's name is revealed in the end, while here it isn't. But I don't think that the existence/absence of a name should affect the naming. That page is called "Jackson Lake", so this page should be named based on the origin of the alien, not his impersonation of the Doctor. [[User:Amorkuz|Amorkuz]] [[User talk:Amorkuz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 07:59, April 17, 2016 (UTC) | |||
::: Good points. I don't remember the matter about the name of the species (maybe I didn't listen carefully, I'm not an English mother-tongue), but I'm afraid that [[Sanukuma (I Went to a Marvellous Party)]] could be the most proper title according to our guidelines. -- [[User:HarveyWallbanger|HarveyWallbanger]] [[User talk:HarveyWallbanger|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:58, April 17, 2016 (UTC) | |||
== It's not Sanukuma == | |||
I remembered correctly: [[Sanukuma]] is not the name of the species. It is one of the castes of the species called [[Kamishi]] (or Camishi?). The Doctor states that Kamishi had a complex caste structure and that Sanukuma were the seeders of worlds. We also know from their own description that they are behind the [[SporeShip]]s. There is, however, not a shred of evidence that "Mr Song" belonged to the same caste. In fact, he never mentions the species or the caste. We can only attribute him to the same species because he states that his people are behind the SporeShips. Whether he means the whole species or the caste is anyone's guess. So I believe the proper name for him would be [[Kamishi (I Went to a Marvellous Party)]] or [[Camishi (I Went to a Marvellous Party)]]. I really hate it when BF provides no written source for the spelling (there was a similar situation recently with [[Aldriss]], until they posted it in some later news). [[User:Amorkuz|Amorkuz]] [[User talk:Amorkuz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:54, April 18, 2016 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 22:49, 25 February 2017
I don't think moving it to Song (I Went to a Marvellous Party) makes sense, any more than moving Mr Smith to Smith (Invasion of the Bane).
If anything, maybe it would make sense to move him to The Doctor (I Went to a Marvellous Party), since he's not actually called "Mr Song" in the story, just in the credits, and he doesn't give his true name, just tries to pretend he's the Doctor. JagoAndLitefoot ☎ 12:25, December 27, 2015 (UTC)
- I agree, if in-narrative information are to be stronger than behind-the-scenes one. HarveyWallbanger ☎ 10:15, March 13, 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that no variation of Mr Song can be good since it is not his name and it is not used in-universe. I would also argue against using variations of The Doctor for similar reasons:
- he is not the Doctor;
- he does not look like any incarnation of the Doctor.
- I'm not sure there was another new character trying to impersonate a future incarnation of the Doctor before. But it seems wrong to call an imposter by the name of the one being impersonated, especially if the impersonated character is himself present in-universe. I would propose to use the naming scheme applied to nameless Daleks, Cybermen, etc. In other words, provide the name of the species followed by a descriptor if any. There is already a Sanukuma Master. This one could be a Sanukuma renegade or simply Sanukuma (I Went to a Marvellous Party). I have, however, a separate doubt regarding the name of the species. I seem to remember that Sanukuma was not the whole specie but a caste within it responsible for seeding worlds. I will relisten Signs and The Rulers of the Universe to make sure and return here with the findings. Meanwhile, since moving pages should be done by admins anyways, I will ask for an opinion of one on the naming issue. Amorkuz ☎ 22:17, April 16, 2016 (UTC)
- UPD. I think I found a good analogy after all: Jackson Lake from The Next Doctor. He did not impersonate the Doctor; he believed himself to be the Doctor, which is even a stronger reason to call him "the Doctor". In both cases, the fake Doctor had an identity prior to becoming "the Doctor" but this identity was not present in DWU. What I mean is: the first time we see both in-universe, they are "the Doctor", and only later their true identity is revealed. In both cases, a major character believed (for some time) that he was a future incarnation of the Doctor: River here and the Tenth Doctor there. The only difference is that there the original identity's name is revealed in the end, while here it isn't. But I don't think that the existence/absence of a name should affect the naming. That page is called "Jackson Lake", so this page should be named based on the origin of the alien, not his impersonation of the Doctor. Amorkuz ☎ 07:59, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
- Good points. I don't remember the matter about the name of the species (maybe I didn't listen carefully, I'm not an English mother-tongue), but I'm afraid that Sanukuma (I Went to a Marvellous Party) could be the most proper title according to our guidelines. -- HarveyWallbanger ☎ 08:58, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
- UPD. I think I found a good analogy after all: Jackson Lake from The Next Doctor. He did not impersonate the Doctor; he believed himself to be the Doctor, which is even a stronger reason to call him "the Doctor". In both cases, the fake Doctor had an identity prior to becoming "the Doctor" but this identity was not present in DWU. What I mean is: the first time we see both in-universe, they are "the Doctor", and only later their true identity is revealed. In both cases, a major character believed (for some time) that he was a future incarnation of the Doctor: River here and the Tenth Doctor there. The only difference is that there the original identity's name is revealed in the end, while here it isn't. But I don't think that the existence/absence of a name should affect the naming. That page is called "Jackson Lake", so this page should be named based on the origin of the alien, not his impersonation of the Doctor. Amorkuz ☎ 07:59, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
It's not Sanukuma[[edit source]]
I remembered correctly: Sanukuma is not the name of the species. It is one of the castes of the species called Kamishi (or Camishi?). The Doctor states that Kamishi had a complex caste structure and that Sanukuma were the seeders of worlds. We also know from their own description that they are behind the SporeShips. There is, however, not a shred of evidence that "Mr Song" belonged to the same caste. In fact, he never mentions the species or the caste. We can only attribute him to the same species because he states that his people are behind the SporeShips. Whether he means the whole species or the caste is anyone's guess. So I believe the proper name for him would be Kamishi (I Went to a Marvellous Party) or Camishi (I Went to a Marvellous Party). I really hate it when BF provides no written source for the spelling (there was a similar situation recently with Aldriss, until they posted it in some later news). Amorkuz ☎ 19:54, April 18, 2016 (UTC)
