Talk:Twelfth Doctor: Difference between revisions
From Tardis Wiki, the free Doctor Who reference
(→5.3 Factual correction: response, plus new header Garfield) Tag: sourceedit |
m (Template order: P2/3) |
||
| (211 intermediate revisions by 27 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{subpage tabs}} | |||
{{ArchCat}} | {{ArchCat}} | ||
== | == Removed from lead == | ||
Removed this part again from the lead: | |||
: Unique amongst his incarnations, the Twelfth Doctor would not travel full time with the large majority of his companions, with some like [[Clara Oswald]] and [[Bill Potts]] taking breaks from the TARDIS between travels, some like [[Hattie Munroe]] taking the occasional trip, and some like [[Jata]] being involved in various side quests during a longer trip. | |||
There's several narrative breaks where Amy and Rory leave and return, allowing for gaps for non-televised companions: at the end of their honeymoon (prior to ''[[The Impossible Astronaut (TV story)|The Impossible Astronaut]]''); after Melody disappears in ''[[A Good Man Goes to War (TV story)|A Good Man Goes to War]]''; after they're given a new house and car in ''[[The God Complex (TV story)|The God Complex]]''; and every story or close to that in series 7 (and the 2013 specials) has Amy, Rory and Clara (minus ''[[The Snowmen (TV story)|The Snowmen]]'', which is technically a one-off for Victorian Clara) divided between home life and "Doctor life". -- [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] ([[User talk:Tybort|talk page]]) 00:51, October 6, 2017 (UTC) | |||
:The removed information is too open to dispute to be put in the lead. It should not be added back to the lead. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:06, October 6, 2017 (UTC) | |||
I | == Red button on his jacket sleeve: why we should consider breaking up this article == | ||
Before we get into a full-blown [[T:NO WARS|'''edit war''']] about [[Special:Diff/2459640]], I just wanted to jump in and hopefully calm the waters a bit. First off, the IP editor is correct in his or her statement. Yes, Twelve did have a single red button on the hoodie-jacket worn prominently in S9. If using the US iTunes copy of ''[[The Witch's Familiar (TV story)|The Witch's Familiar]]'', you can quite clearly see this button on the left cuff at 46'28" and on the right at 46'37". | |||
However, [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] used sound editorial judgment in excising it from the article. It's quite trivial to the Twelfth Doctor article. If we had an article called, say, [[Twelfth Doctor's apparel]] -- and really, maybe we should have an article like this for each Doctor -- then it would be much more relevant. So a part of the reason I'm writing this note is to preserve the information left by the IP editor so that it might be incorporated later into such an article. | |||
As things are, however, these Doctor articles are ''huge'' and present real problems for our mobile visitors, especially those on slow connections. We should use this incident to consider ways to break up our larger articles into more specific chunks, rather than continuing to add every little detail to already-bloated pages. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}} 19:07: Thu 08 Feb 2018</span> | |||
== The Day of the Doctor? == | |||
When is it established that the events of The Day of the Doctor take place during Deep Breath for Twelve? {{Unsigned-anon|104.175.51.158 }} | |||
:: Onscreen evidence. The TARDIS interior, as much we see of it, is still the Matt Smith interior, so it can only happen before he redesigned it.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:16, July 9, 2019 (UTC) | |||
== River Song as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse == | |||
and | Hi. I've seen a fair few edits now of River Song being removed and re-added to the infobox as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse, so I thought I would put in a friendly request for people to battle it out here in the talk page rather than edit warring. Or perhaps an admin could give a ruling on whether or not River should be included in the infobox? Thanks. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:32, June 30, 2020 (UTC) | ||
: Alternatively, join the conversation at [[Thread:277456]]. -- [[User:Jack "BtR" Saxon|Saxon]] ([[User talk:Jack "BtR" Saxon|✉️]]) 11:46, June 30, 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Ah sweet there is already a thread happening. That's a much better option. Sorry I didn't realise. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:49, June 30, 2020 (UTC) | |||
== Infobox image question == | |||
Currently, the Infobox image is this. | |||
<gallery> | |||
TwelveLooksAtMissy.jpg|The current image. | |||
</gallery> | |||
Now, I think this is a very ''good'' image, and I don't intend to try to change it. However, the crop... isn't ''optimal''. | |||
Firstly, there is a fair bit of "dead space" to the left of the image, which not only looks a bit skewed, it also causes the Doctor's head to be on the far right, making the thumbnail image crop out the side of Twelve's head. | |||
Secondly, the current crop is not compliant with [[T:GTI]] - the crop omits a good chunk of Twelve's forehead, and as the forehead is ''part'' of the face, it the crop should not go beyond that. T:GTI states that images should be cropped in on an individual's face, not just on the mouth, nose, and eyes. | |||
So, I | So, I would like suggest this cropping of the image to replace the current one. | ||
<gallery> | |||
TwelveLooksAtMissy2.jpg|My proposed crop of the image. | |||
</gallery> | |||
[[ | I look forward to other users' input. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 10:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC) | ||
:The cropped image looks good to me. The only improvement I could think of would be to ''maybe'' crop a little off the bottom so the image is less square, but that's just personal preference. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC) | |||
: | :: The cropped image looks decent but, just so everyone can make an informed decision, the original reasoning for why the specific cropping of the current image was chosen can be found at [[Talk:Twelfth Doctor/Archive 2#Conclusion]]. It also states the allocated time has passed to open up a discussion for an entirely new image if anyone has a good alternative. [[User:Borisashton|Borisashton]] [[User talk:Borisashton|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC) | ||
: | |||
: | |||
: | |||
::: Yeah, uh, once again, something that @[[User:CzechOut|CzechOut]] said hasn't aged well. | |||
::: The FANDOM app has gone under... changes... since CzechOut's ruling; now, the image is at its ''worst'' on the mobile app. | |||
<gallery> | |||
File:TwelveWinnerMobileFinal.jpg|In 2017. | |||
Screenshot 20220209-144429 FANDOM-min.jpg|In 2022. | |||
</gallery> | |||
::: See the issue? | |||
::: I really do believe that we should fix this with my crop. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 14:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC) | |||
: | :: That screenshot from the FANDOM app really clinches that ''some'' change was necessary. '''The new, forehead-including crop has been implemented.''' | ||
:: | :: That being said, while I personally think that (crop notwithstanding) this remains a very good image, I want to make it clear that this is not a resolution ''against'' potentially putting forward an all-new image, if anybody has suggestions. <span style="color: #baa3d6;font-family:Comic Sans;">[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']]</span> <span style="color: #baa3d6;">[[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]]</span> 14:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC) | ||
== | == Update the link in description in "Clean up" template == | ||
: | In "Clean up" template, there is "As detailed at [[Thread:264489]], to avoid overly long articles, highly-recurring character pages' biography should only have AT MOST 2-3 sentences per story, not whole paragraphs of plot detail. This page needs a major cleanup in that area." However, the update of FANDOM causes links like <nowiki>[[Thread:264489]]</nowiki> is no longer supported now. Could someone fix the problem? [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC) | ||
: Thing is, is that we don't really have anythang to change it to. All of the info was in that Forum thread we can no longer access. | |||
: Furthermore, we are waiting for one admin to bring back the Forums, as he claimed he had made an archive prior to the Forums becoming inaccessible, but the guy has been making empty promises for well over a year now. While things are stagnating in this Forum-limbo, there just isn't much we can do, as frustrating it is. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 13:57, 12 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
:: Thank you for responding. I suppose it may be currently the only way to solve the problem. [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:07, 12 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
:: Also, I feel that archiving websites may contain the archived thread. You may be able to find archived version in these websites. [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
::: A few threads can be found on the Wayback Machine but by no means all. The forums were just not visited enough for most threads to be archived automatically. Moreover, when threads are on there, they often don't include the very end of the thread which is often the important bit with the closing post. There are some tricks you can use to access the old threads but they're not particularly easy to use. It's a really annoying situation. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:48, 13 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
: I remember that thread and can explain. The conclusion was that [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] decreed that character pages should only have 2-3 sentences per story. There was no guidance for how to actually implement this, so very few people have tried. | |||
: One approach has been pages for specific events, like [[Operation Mannequin]], or larger "eras" in the Doctor's life, like [[Exile on Earth]] and [[The Doctor's early life]]. But I'm not sure if any parts of Twelve's life could be split off in that way. | |||
: Another possible idea would be using subpages: [[Twelfth Doctor/Biography]] could go as in-depth as possible, in which case [[Twelfth Doctor#Biography]] would provide a broad overview. But an in-universe subpage like this would be unprecedented and probably shouldn't be done without a larger discussion with admins. – [[User:NateBumber|n8]] ([[User talk:NateBumber|☎]]) 14:31, 14 June 2022 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 02:23, 13 March 2024
Removed from lead[[edit source]]
Removed this part again from the lead:
- Unique amongst his incarnations, the Twelfth Doctor would not travel full time with the large majority of his companions, with some like Clara Oswald and Bill Potts taking breaks from the TARDIS between travels, some like Hattie Munroe taking the occasional trip, and some like Jata being involved in various side quests during a longer trip.
There's several narrative breaks where Amy and Rory leave and return, allowing for gaps for non-televised companions: at the end of their honeymoon (prior to The Impossible Astronaut); after Melody disappears in A Good Man Goes to War; after they're given a new house and car in The God Complex; and every story or close to that in series 7 (and the 2013 specials) has Amy, Rory and Clara (minus The Snowmen, which is technically a one-off for Victorian Clara) divided between home life and "Doctor life". -- Tybort (talk page) 00:51, October 6, 2017 (UTC)
- The removed information is too open to dispute to be put in the lead. It should not be added back to the lead. Shambala108 ☎ 01:06, October 6, 2017 (UTC)
Red button on his jacket sleeve: why we should consider breaking up this article[[edit source]]
Before we get into a full-blown edit war about Special:Diff/2459640, I just wanted to jump in and hopefully calm the waters a bit. First off, the IP editor is correct in his or her statement. Yes, Twelve did have a single red button on the hoodie-jacket worn prominently in S9. If using the US iTunes copy of The Witch's Familiar, you can quite clearly see this button on the left cuff at 46'28" and on the right at 46'37".
However, Shambala108 used sound editorial judgment in excising it from the article. It's quite trivial to the Twelfth Doctor article. If we had an article called, say, Twelfth Doctor's apparel -- and really, maybe we should have an article like this for each Doctor -- then it would be much more relevant. So a part of the reason I'm writing this note is to preserve the information left by the IP editor so that it might be incorporated later into such an article.
As things are, however, these Doctor articles are huge and present real problems for our mobile visitors, especially those on slow connections. We should use this incident to consider ways to break up our larger articles into more specific chunks, rather than continuing to add every little detail to already-bloated pages.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 19:07: Thu 08 Feb 2018
The Day of the Doctor?[[edit source]]
When is it established that the events of The Day of the Doctor take place during Deep Breath for Twelve? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 104.175.51.158 (talk).
- Onscreen evidence. The TARDIS interior, as much we see of it, is still the Matt Smith interior, so it can only happen before he redesigned it.BananaClownMan ☎ 00:16, July 9, 2019 (UTC)
River Song as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse[[edit source]]
Hi. I've seen a fair few edits now of River Song being removed and re-added to the infobox as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse, so I thought I would put in a friendly request for people to battle it out here in the talk page rather than edit warring. Or perhaps an admin could give a ruling on whether or not River should be included in the infobox? Thanks. LauraBatham ☎ 11:32, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
- Alternatively, join the conversation at Thread:277456. -- Saxon (✉️) 11:46, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
- Ah sweet there is already a thread happening. That's a much better option. Sorry I didn't realise. LauraBatham ☎ 11:49, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
Infobox image question[[edit source]]
Currently, the Infobox image is this.
The current image.
Now, I think this is a very good image, and I don't intend to try to change it. However, the crop... isn't optimal.
Firstly, there is a fair bit of "dead space" to the left of the image, which not only looks a bit skewed, it also causes the Doctor's head to be on the far right, making the thumbnail image crop out the side of Twelve's head.
Secondly, the current crop is not compliant with T:GTI - the crop omits a good chunk of Twelve's forehead, and as the forehead is part of the face, it the crop should not go beyond that. T:GTI states that images should be cropped in on an individual's face, not just on the mouth, nose, and eyes.
So, I would like suggest this cropping of the image to replace the current one.
My proposed crop of the image.
I look forward to other users' input.
10:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- The cropped image looks good to me. The only improvement I could think of would be to maybe crop a little off the bottom so the image is less square, but that's just personal preference. LauraBatham ☎ 13:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- The cropped image looks decent but, just so everyone can make an informed decision, the original reasoning for why the specific cropping of the current image was chosen can be found at Talk:Twelfth Doctor/Archive 2#Conclusion. It also states the allocated time has passed to open up a discussion for an entirely new image if anyone has a good alternative. Borisashton ☎ 13:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, uh, once again, something that @CzechOut said hasn't aged well.
- The FANDOM app has gone under... changes... since CzechOut's ruling; now, the image is at its worst on the mobile app.
In 2017.
In 2022.
- See the issue?
- I really do believe that we should fix this with my crop. 14:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- That screenshot from the FANDOM app really clinches that some change was necessary. The new, forehead-including crop has been implemented.
- That being said, while I personally think that (crop notwithstanding) this remains a very good image, I want to make it clear that this is not a resolution against potentially putting forward an all-new image, if anybody has suggestions. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 14:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Update the link in description in "Clean up" template[[edit source]]
In "Clean up" template, there is "As detailed at Thread:264489, to avoid overly long articles, highly-recurring character pages' biography should only have AT MOST 2-3 sentences per story, not whole paragraphs of plot detail. This page needs a major cleanup in that area." However, the update of FANDOM causes links like [[Thread:264489]] is no longer supported now. Could someone fix the problem? Mariogoods ☎ 13:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thing is, is that we don't really have anythang to change it to. All of the info was in that Forum thread we can no longer access.
- Furthermore, we are waiting for one admin to bring back the Forums, as he claimed he had made an archive prior to the Forums becoming inaccessible, but the guy has been making empty promises for well over a year now. While things are stagnating in this Forum-limbo, there just isn't much we can do, as frustrating it is. 13:57, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for responding. I suppose it may be currently the only way to solve the problem. Mariogoods ☎ 22:07, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Also, I feel that archiving websites may contain the archived thread. You may be able to find archived version in these websites. Mariogoods ☎ 23:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- A few threads can be found on the Wayback Machine but by no means all. The forums were just not visited enough for most threads to be archived automatically. Moreover, when threads are on there, they often don't include the very end of the thread which is often the important bit with the closing post. There are some tricks you can use to access the old threads but they're not particularly easy to use. It's a really annoying situation. Bongo50 ☎ 10:48, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- I remember that thread and can explain. The conclusion was that Shambala108 decreed that character pages should only have 2-3 sentences per story. There was no guidance for how to actually implement this, so very few people have tried.
- One approach has been pages for specific events, like Operation Mannequin, or larger "eras" in the Doctor's life, like Exile on Earth and The Doctor's early life. But I'm not sure if any parts of Twelve's life could be split off in that way.
- Another possible idea would be using subpages: Twelfth Doctor/Biography could go as in-depth as possible, in which case Twelfth Doctor#Biography would provide a broad overview. But an in-universe subpage like this would be unprecedented and probably shouldn't be done without a larger discussion with admins. – n8 (☎) 14:31, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
