Talk:Twelfth Doctor: Difference between revisions

From Tardis Wiki, the free Doctor Who reference
Tag: sourceedit
m (Template order: P2/3)
 
(208 intermediate revisions by 25 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{subpage tabs}}
{{ArchCat}}
{{ArchCat}}


==Preparations==
== Removed from lead ==
Does anyone else feel the Preparations section is a little too meta? [[User:Apparatjik|Apparatjik]] [[User talk:Apparatjik|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 04:18, July 9, 2015 (UTC)
 
I really feel like this section should go.
[[User:King of Dunkshire|King of Dunkshire]] [[User talk:King of Dunkshire|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:55, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
 
:: I would say that all "foreshadowing" and "preparations" sections need to go. They're very out of place, and are closer to 'Legacy' sections then 'biography' sections. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 02:21, October 23, 2015 (UTC)
 
== New Image ==
 
[[File:12doctor-killthemoon.jpg|thumb]]
Just recently saw ''Kill The Moon'', and I saw this particular image (on right). I've read the image policy and I'm pretty sure the image fits that.
 
And, to me, it looks like a better one! Anyone else got any thoughts?<br>[[User:Guyus24|Guyus24]] ([[User talk:Guyus24|talk]]) 09:42, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
:It's kinda awkward.... [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 13:30, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
 
::First of all, the cropping is exactly what we want for infoboxes. However, the image itself is a bit dark. Infobox images have to be visible by viewers using any kind of device, including small cell phone screens. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:37, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
 
::: I kinda like it. The darker image tone fits his darker demeanour.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:42, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
 
::::Do you think playing with the contrast would fix it? I've got software that can do that.<br>[[User:Guyus24|Guyus24]] ([[User talk:Guyus24|talk]]) 07:13, September 9, 2015 (UTC)
 
[[File:TwelfthDoctorWWL.jpg|thumb]]
How's this picture for an alternative? Taken from The Woman Who Lived.
--[[User:TARDIS2468|TARDIS2468]] [[User talk:TARDIS2468|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:15, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 
:That's too dark for an infobox image. '''[[User:PicassoAndPringles|<span style="color:#002B7F">P&amp;P</span>]] [[User_talk:PicassoAndPringles|<span style="color:#FCD116;font-size:0.6em">talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/PicassoAndPringles|<span style="color:#CE1126;font-size:0.6em">contribs</span>]]''' 23:21, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
[[File:Twelfth Doctor on Le Verrier.jpg|thumb|left]]
 
:How about this one?[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:25, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
::It certainly looks adequate but it's a tad wide and dark on one side. Perhaps if there was one in ''Under the Lake'' as that had quite a few bright areas? [[User:Snivystorm|Snivystorm]] [[User talk:Snivystorm|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:25, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
:::That last one isn't tightly cropped enough. See [[T:GTI]]. On the first proposed picture, I concur with Shambala—nice cropping according to T:GTI, but far too dark to be used.{{User:SOTO/sig}} 21:26, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 
:What about this pic ? [[File:pc.jpg|thumb]] he basically looks like that currently (season 9, christmas, 10) the currently pic is from season 8
::and he just changed so much because of his hair, i find it logically
[[User:Abmwm330|Abmwm330]] [[User talk:Abmwm330|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:21, August 23, 2016 (UTC)
 
:Well, first of all, we don't really care how recent an image is; it just has to conform to our guidelines.
:Second, your image is not cropped closely enough. Yes, I know the current image is also not cropped enough, but at this point we need to replace it with one that fits our guidelines, not another one that doesn't. Please read through [[Tardis:Guide to images]] and maybe you can crop your image to the proper degree and bring it back here for consideration. Also, please see [[Tardis:Image use policy]] for how to properly name image files. Thanks! [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:15, August 23, 2016 (UTC)
 
[[File:12thdoctorbase.jpg|thumb]] What about this one? The doctor is the main focus and his whole head is seen
[[User:Abmwm330|Abmwm330]] [[User talk:Abmwm330|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:17, August 27, 2016 (UTC)
 
== Ghost ==
On the basis that the other people turned into ghosts in TV: ''Under the Lake'' says Human/Tivolian and Ghost I have put this on the Twelfth Doctor's infobox as well.--[[Special:Contributions/90.221.128.67|90.221.128.67]]<sup>[[User talk:90.221.128.67#top|talk to me]]</sup> 10:08, October 10, 2015 (UTC)
 
== Hell Bent punch ==
Am I right in saying this is first time the Doctor has ever on screen assaulted anyone? I know the 9th Doctor certisnky got in to s few fights but they were more on self defence. This must be the first time he's ever attacked anyone physically, in new who anyway? [[User:Snivystorm|Snivystorm]] [[User talk:Snivystorm|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:51, December 7, 2015 (UTC)
 
==Voord Victorious==
This section effectively re tells the exact same information as above but from the alternate Doctor's viewpoint especially in the second paragraph. Is it not better for the Alternate 12th Doctor to have his own page, or at least a section that doesn't feel like it's trying to both telling a story and fil a biography? [[User:Snivystorm|Snivystorm]] [[User talk:Snivystorm|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:47, December 17, 2015 (UTC)
 
==Love and the Doctor==
I know full well that I'm opening up a pandora's box of debate here, but if we're going to talk about love with regards to River Song, that comes off as very "River shippish" and unbalanced as there is little discussion regarding the Doctor's feelings towards Clara which are unambiguous, particularly in the Face the Raven, Heaven Sent and Hell Bent. I'm trying to figure a way to word this that doesn't go into speculation, though I contest speculation regarding River is already present in this article. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.52.234|68.146.52.234]]<sup>[[User talk:68.146.52.234#top|talk to me]]</sup> 19:30, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
 
== The Doctor speaking to the dial in Heaven Sent ==


I do not understand the rationale of adding and readding the part of this section beginning with "the Doctor, knowing the Time Lords could save Clara..." based on the facts in ''[[Heaven Sent (TV story)|Heaven Sent]]'' and ''[[Hell Bent (TV story)|Hell Bent]]'':
Removed this part again from the lead:


: With the Veil collapsing in on itself, the Doctor arrived on [[Gallifrey]] and, after telling [[Gallifreyan boy|a nearby boy]] to inform "someone important" in the [[Capitol]] of his arrival, ([[TV]]: ''[[Heaven Sent]]'') the Doctor, knowing the Time Lords could save Clara, ([[TV]]: ''[[Hell Bent]]'') addressed the confession dial, saying to whomever was listening that he was the Hybrid, ([[TV]]: ''[[Heaven Sent]]'') so he would have something to bargain with them. ([[TV]]: ''[[Hell Bent]]'')
: Unique amongst his incarnations, the Twelfth Doctor would not travel full time with the large majority of his companions, with some like [[Clara Oswald]] and [[Bill Potts]] taking breaks from the TARDIS between travels, some like [[Hattie Munroe]] taking the occasional trip, and some like [[Jata]] being involved in various side quests during a longer trip.


1. "The Hybrid... is me" at the end of ''Heaven Sent'', at least from the Doctor's perspective, seems to be referring to Me, or Ashildr, and 2. it seems to me that no-one actually was listening to him at that climax considering various scenes in ''Hell Bent'' regarding the Doctor's knowledge of the Hybrid (he purports to know what the Hybrid is, but he reveals that without saying before breaking through the azbantium wall and leaving the dial. I struggle to understand the exact importance of the cliffhanger or who, if anyone, could have heard it, given ''Hell Bent''{{'}}s dialogue.)
There's several narrative breaks where Amy and Rory leave and return, allowing for gaps for non-televised companions: at the end of their honeymoon (prior to ''[[The Impossible Astronaut (TV story)|The Impossible Astronaut]]''); after Melody disappears in ''[[A Good Man Goes to War (TV story)|A Good Man Goes to War]]''; after they're given a new house and car in ''[[The God Complex (TV story)|The God Complex]]''; and every story or close to that in series 7 (and the 2013 specials) has Amy, Rory and Clara (minus ''[[The Snowmen (TV story)|The Snowmen]]'', which is technically a one-off for Victorian Clara) divided between home life and "Doctor life". -- [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] ([[User talk:Tybort|talk page]]) 00:51, October 6, 2017 (UTC)
:The removed information is too open to dispute to be put in the lead. It should not be added back to the lead. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:06, October 6, 2017 (UTC)


: '''Rassilon:''' We needed to know. You have information about the Hybrid, a danger to all of us. If you'd told us what you knew, you could have walked out of there.
== Red button on his jacket sleeve: why we should consider breaking up this article ==
Before we get into a full-blown [[T:NO WARS|'''edit war''']] about [[Special:Diff/2459640]], I just wanted to jump in and hopefully calm the waters a bit. First off, the IP editor is correct in his or her statement. Yes, Twelve did have a single red button on the hoodie-jacket worn prominently in S9. If using the US iTunes copy of ''[[The Witch's Familiar (TV story)|The Witch's Familiar]]'', you can quite clearly see this button on the left cuff at 46'28" and on the right at 46'37".  


and
However, [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] used sound editorial judgment in excising it from the article. It's quite trivial to the Twelfth Doctor article. If we had an article called, say, [[Twelfth Doctor's apparel]] -- and really, maybe we should have an article like this for each Doctor -- then it would be much more relevant. So a part of the reason I'm writing this note is to preserve the information left by the IP editor so that it might be incorporated later into such an article.


: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' If you wanted to know about the Hybrid, why didn't you just ask me?
As things are, however, these Doctor articles are ''huge'' and present real problems for our mobile visitors, especially those on slow connections. We should use this incident to consider ways to break up our larger articles into more specific chunks, rather than continuing to add every little detail to already-bloated pages. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}} 19:07: Thu 08 Feb 2018</span>
: '''The General:''' If the Hybrid is a threat to the people of this world, why don't you just tell us?
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' What do you know already?
: '''The General:''' The Hybrid is a legendary--
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' No.
: '''The General:''' The Hybrid is a creature, thought to be crossbred from two warrior races.
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' Which races?
: '''The General:''' The Daleks and the Time Lords, it is supposed.
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' Oh, must be well hard, then.
: '''The General:''' Unstoppable, according to the stories.
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' If they're just stories, why are you so worried?
: '''The General:''' Some Matrix prophecies suggest--
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' No.
: '''The General:''' Many prophecies suggest--
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' No.
: '''The General:''' All Matrix prophecies concur that this creature will one day stand in the ruins of Gallifrey. It will unravel the Web of Time, and destroy a billion billion hearts to heal its own.
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' What colour is it?
: '''The General:''' I don't know.
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' These prophecies, they never tell you anything useful, do they?


and
== The Day of the Doctor? ==
When is it established that the events of The Day of the Doctor take place during Deep Breath for Twelve? {{Unsigned-anon|104.175.51.158 }}


: '''Clara:''' OK, uhh, hang on. Wait, what? Did I miss something?
:: Onscreen evidence. The TARDIS interior, as much we see of it, is still the Matt Smith interior, so it can only happen before he redesigned it.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:16, July 9, 2019 (UTC)
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' Well, we're several billion years in the future and the universe is pretty much over, so, yeah, quite a lot.
: '''The General:''' Young lady. Miss Oswald. I'm afraid we only have a very few minutes with you.
: '''Clara:''' Who's he?
: '''The General:''' According to the Doctor, you can tell us something about the creature known as the Hybrid.
: ...
: '''The General:''' Doctor, we have to explain.
: '''Clara:''' Doctor, what is going on?
: '''The General:''' Although you are currently conscious and aware, in fact, you died billions of years ago.
: '''Clara:''' Doctor.
: '''The General:''' We have extracted you at the very end of your time stream to request your help. Once we're finished here, you will be returned to your final moments. Your death is an established historical event and cannot be altered. I'm sorry.


and
== River Song as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse ==


: '''Ashildr:''' You remember now, though, don't you? Tell me, Doctor. Who is the Hybrid? Who threatens all of time and space?
Hi. I've seen a fair few edits now of River Song being removed and re-added to the infobox as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse, so I thought I would put in a friendly request for people to battle it out here in the talk page rather than edit warring. Or perhaps an admin could give a ruling on whether or not River should be included in the infobox? Thanks. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:32, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' Oh, but that's easy. That's very, very easy. The Hybrid is you.
: Alternatively, join the conversation at [[Thread:277456]]. -- [[User:Jack "BtR" Saxon|Saxon]] ([[User talk:Jack "BtR" Saxon|✉️]]) 11:46, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
:: Ah sweet there is already a thread happening. That's a much better option. Sorry I didn't realise. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:49, June 30, 2020 (UTC)


So, I'm afraid I can't see in any way how either the Doctor saying the Hybrid was him, or him merely claiming it, was what caused the bargaining and escape from Gallifrey.
== Infobox image question ==
Currently, the Infobox image is this.
<gallery>
TwelveLooksAtMissy.jpg|The current image.
</gallery>
Now, I think this is a very ''good'' image, and I don't intend to try to change it. However, the crop... isn't ''optimal''.


[[User:BananaClownMan]] mentions in an edit reason that the Doctor mentions ''Heaven Sent''{{'}}s cliffhanger to Clara in the Cloisters,[http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=Twelfth_Doctor&diff=2027830&oldid=2027802] but that's not true at all, unless it's referring to the diamond wall shortly before:
Firstly, there is a fair bit of "dead space" to the left of the image, which not only looks a bit skewed, it also causes the Doctor's head to be on the far right, making the thumbnail image crop out the side of Twelve's head.


: '''Clara:''' How long has it been for you since you last saw me?
Secondly, the current crop is not compliant with [[T:GTI]] - the crop omits a good chunk of Twelve's forehead, and as the forehead is ''part'' of the face, it the crop should not go beyond that. T:GTI states that images should be cropped in on an individual's face, not just on the mouth, nose, and eyes.
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' Oh, I'm not sure.
: '''Clara:''' How long?
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' I was stuck in a place. They--
: '''Clara:''' They? What? Who? Who are we talking about?
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' They wanted something from me. Information. It really doesn't matter.
: ...
: '''The General:''' Open up. We're going in. We'll stick to the perimeter, no more than three paces from the lift. Do not enter the Cloisters.
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' Twenty feet of pure diamond. Harder than diamond. But you'll break through anything, given time.
: '''Clara:''' How much time?
: '''The General:''' Miss Oswald.
: '''Clara:''' Stay back.
: '''The General:''' I'm sorry, but we have to find a way to extract you--
: '''Clara:''' I said stay back! The Hybrid, what is it? What's so important you would fight so long?
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' It doesn't matter what the Hybrid is. It only matters that I convinced them that I knew. Otherwise, they'd have kicked me out, and I'd have nothing left to bargain with.
: '''Clara:''' What were you bargaining for?
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' What do you think? You. I had to find a way to save you. I knew it had to be the Time Lords. They cost you your life on Trap Street, Clara, and I was gonna make them bring you back. I just had to hang on in there for a bit.
: '''Clara:''' How long?
: '''Twelfth Doctor:''' It was fine.
: '''Clara:''' One question, and you will answer. How long was the Doctor trapped inside the confession dial?
: '''Ohila:''' We think four and a half billion years.
: '''The General:''' He could have left any time he wanted. He just had to say what he knew. The dial would have released him.


And again, combined with stuff like the General not knowing the Hybrid's colour and so forth, the Doctor says, ''prior to leaving the dial in Heaven Sent'', he knows what the Hybrid is. BananaClownMan gives the edit reason: "The hanging on for a bit refers to him waiting in the barn. He tells the dial he is the Hybrid, and themn waits for the Time Lords to come for him so he can turn the tables and save Clara,"[http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=Twelfth_Doctor&diff=2027853&oldid=2027840] even though right after saying that he was having to hang on in there to bargain with them, Clara asks Ohila "How long was the Doctor trapped inside the confession dial?" Also, in ''Heaven Sent'', he tells a boy to go to the city and tell "somebody important" he's back, and the "you could have walked out of there", "they'd have kicked me out" and "he could have left any time he wanted" in ''Hell Bent'' is also clearly referring to the four and a half billion years in the dial, and not the waiting in the barn. I'm sorry, but there's so many caveats to assume the Time Lords could still hear him outside the confession dial saying "the Hybrid... is me", which again, more likely means Ashildr, that they probably didn't. -- [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] ([[User talk:Tybort|talk page]]) 02:36, April 13, 2016 (UTC)
So, I would like suggest this cropping of the image to replace the current one.
<gallery>
TwelveLooksAtMissy2.jpg|My proposed crop of the image.
</gallery>


:All this is quite persuading, if not for the following line for the ''Heaven Sent'' cliffhanger you haven't addressed; "You '''can probably''' still hear me, so just between ourselves, you've got the prophecy wrong." Your argument stems from the idea the Time Lords were still listening after he escaped, the Doctor himself states there is a possibility they can't.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:41, April 13, 2016 (UTC)
I look forward to other users' input. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 10:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
:The cropped image looks good to me. The only improvement I could think of would be to ''maybe'' crop a little off the bottom so the image is less square, but that's just personal preference. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


:: My last point on this is literally "they probably didn't", so I'm not sure what's being added here. -- [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] ([[User talk:Tybort|talk page]]) 22:01, April 16, 2016 (UTC)
:: The cropped image looks decent but, just so everyone can make an informed decision, the original reasoning for why the specific cropping of the current image was chosen can be found at [[Talk:Twelfth Doctor/Archive 2#Conclusion]]. It also states the allocated time has passed to open up a discussion for an entirely new image if anyone has a good alternative. [[User:Borisashton|Borisashton]] [[User talk:Borisashton|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


::: Look, User:Tybort, I'm going to level with you here; I have no love for the ''Heaven Sent'' cliffhanger, or ''Hell Bent'' either, and I have a lot on my plate with University finals in the near future. So, you win, I guess. I will no longer edit that part of the timeline, or argue with you about it.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:21, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
::: Yeah, uh, once again, something that @[[User:CzechOut|CzechOut]] said hasn't aged well.
::: The FANDOM app has gone under... changes... since CzechOut's ruling; now, the image is at its ''worst'' on the mobile app.
<gallery>
File:TwelveWinnerMobileFinal.jpg|In 2017.
Screenshot 20220209-144429 FANDOM-min.jpg|In 2022.
</gallery>
::: See the issue?
::: I really do believe that we should fix this with my crop. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 14:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


==Nail biting==
:: That screenshot from the FANDOM app really clinches that ''some'' change was necessary. '''The new, forehead-including crop has been implemented.'''
The article mentions that the Doctor has a habit of tapping his fingers to his teeth, but if you look at a couple of moments, such as just before he shouts "The universe is over" in Hell Bent it's pretty obvious he's biting his nails. Maybe this should be added as another character trait? [[Special:Contributions/68.146.233.86|68.146.233.86]]<sup>[[User talk:68.146.233.86#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:24, June 5, 2016 (UTC)


:If he does it somewhat regularly, it could be added. If it's just one story, it could be a one-time thing and is not worth adding as a character trait. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:52, June 5, 2016 (UTC)


== Protection ==
:: That being said, while I personally think that (crop notwithstanding) this remains a very good image, I want to make it clear that this is not a resolution ''against'' potentially putting forward an all-new image, if anybody has suggestions. <span style="color: #baa3d6;font-family:Comic Sans;">[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']]</span> <span style="color: #baa3d6;">[[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]]</span> 14:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)


We have an unregistered user who keeps messing with this page and removing River as this Doctor's wife. This page needs to be protected to prevent this.--[[User:WarGrowlmon18|WarGrowlmon18]] [[User talk:WarGrowlmon18|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:35, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
== Update the link in description in "Clean up" template  ==


Said user just erased the first message under this heading before I reverted it.--[[User:WarGrowlmon18|WarGrowlmon18]] [[User talk:WarGrowlmon18|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:38, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
In "Clean up" template, there is "As detailed at [[Thread:264489]], to avoid overly long articles, highly-recurring character pages' biography should only have AT MOST 2-3 sentences per story, not whole paragraphs of plot detail. This page needs a major cleanup in that area." However, the update of FANDOM causes links like <nowiki>[[Thread:264489]]</nowiki> is no longer supported now. Could someone fix the problem? [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)


== 5.3 Factual correction ==
: Thing is, is that we don't really have anythang to change it to. All of the info was in that Forum thread we can no longer access.


If you're going to list Twelve has a spouse then you need to list all his wives from his very first one as First Doctor. It was Eleven that married River, not Twelve. Twelve has not married anyone in this incarnation. {{unsigned-anon|108.171.131.189}}
: Furthermore, we are waiting for one admin to bring back the Forums, as he claimed he had made an archive prior to the Forums becoming inaccessible, but the guy has been making empty promises for well over a year now. While things are stagnating in this Forum-limbo, there just isn't much we can do, as frustrating it is. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><code>Epsilon</code></span>]][[doctorwho:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 13:57, 12 June 2022 (UTC)


*River is referred to as his wife in Husbands of River Song. And sign your posts.--[[User:WarGrowlmon18|WarGrowlmon18]] [[User talk:WarGrowlmon18|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:05, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
:: Thank you for responding. I suppose it may be currently the only way to solve the problem. [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:07, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
** I have to agree with WarGrowl. The episode clearly indicates that the Doctor was still married to River because River - in her time line - had not yet died. The River the Eleventh Doctor met in "The Name of the Doctor" is referred to as his ex-wife because that River was dead. And if one subscribes to the Twelve/Clara romantic relationship idea (which has been endorsed in multiple televised and cinema-screened interviews by Jenna Coleman, Peter Capaldi and Steven Moffat), keep in mind that THORS clearly indicates that River married several people while still married to the Doctor. So it all evens out (and there's no indication of Clara and the Doctor ever having wed, anyway). So it is perfectly correct to say the Twelfth Doctor was still married. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] [[User talk:23skidoo|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:34, August 31, 2016 (UTC)
:: Also, I feel that archiving websites may contain the archived thread. You may be able to find archived version in these websites. [[User:Mariogoods|Mariogoods]] [[User talk:Mariogoods|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC)


==Garfield==
::: A few threads can be found on the Wayback Machine but by no means all. The forums were just not visited enough for most threads to be archived automatically. Moreover, when threads are on there, they often don't include the very end of the thread which is often the important bit with the closing post. There are some tricks you can use to access the old threads but they're not particularly easy to use. It's a really annoying situation. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:48, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
There's a reference to the Twelfth Doctor liking Garfield books. We need a source for this as there's no reference to Garfield in any televised episode and this wiki's article on Garfield makes no mention of any Twelfth Doctor stories (i.e. novels, audios) referencing the books. We know he liked Where's Wally which I added. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] [[User talk:23skidoo|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:34, August 31, 2016 (UTC)


:: He's fondness for Garfield is mentioned in ''The Blood Cell'', which was already sourced with his liking of books.[[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:16, August 31, 2016 (UTC)
: I remember that thread and can explain. The conclusion was that [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] decreed that character pages should only have 2-3 sentences per story. There was no guidance for how to actually implement this, so very few people have tried.


== 5.3 Factual correction ==
: One approach has been pages for specific events, like [[Operation Mannequin]], or larger "eras" in the Doctor's life, like [[Exile on Earth]] and [[The Doctor's early life]]. But I'm not sure if any parts of Twelve's life could be split off in that way.


The Doctor is considered a polygamist since he has several wives. {{unsigned-anon|45.55.36.65}}
: Another possible idea would be using subpages: [[Twelfth Doctor/Biography]] could go as in-depth as possible, in which case [[Twelfth Doctor#Biography]] would provide a broad overview. But an in-universe subpage like this would be unprecedented and probably shouldn't be done without a larger discussion with admins. – [[User:NateBumber|n8]] ([[User talk:NateBumber|☎]]) 14:31, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 02:23, 13 March 2024

Archive.png
 Archives: #1, #2

Removed from lead[[edit source]]

Removed this part again from the lead:

Unique amongst his incarnations, the Twelfth Doctor would not travel full time with the large majority of his companions, with some like Clara Oswald and Bill Potts taking breaks from the TARDIS between travels, some like Hattie Munroe taking the occasional trip, and some like Jata being involved in various side quests during a longer trip.

There's several narrative breaks where Amy and Rory leave and return, allowing for gaps for non-televised companions: at the end of their honeymoon (prior to The Impossible Astronaut); after Melody disappears in A Good Man Goes to War; after they're given a new house and car in The God Complex; and every story or close to that in series 7 (and the 2013 specials) has Amy, Rory and Clara (minus The Snowmen, which is technically a one-off for Victorian Clara) divided between home life and "Doctor life". -- Tybort (talk page) 00:51, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

The removed information is too open to dispute to be put in the lead. It should not be added back to the lead. Shambala108 ☎ 01:06, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

Red button on his jacket sleeve: why we should consider breaking up this article[[edit source]]

Before we get into a full-blown edit war about Special:Diff/2459640, I just wanted to jump in and hopefully calm the waters a bit. First off, the IP editor is correct in his or her statement. Yes, Twelve did have a single red button on the hoodie-jacket worn prominently in S9. If using the US iTunes copy of The Witch's Familiar, you can quite clearly see this button on the left cuff at 46'28" and on the right at 46'37".

However, Shambala108 used sound editorial judgment in excising it from the article. It's quite trivial to the Twelfth Doctor article. If we had an article called, say, Twelfth Doctor's apparel -- and really, maybe we should have an article like this for each Doctor -- then it would be much more relevant. So a part of the reason I'm writing this note is to preserve the information left by the IP editor so that it might be incorporated later into such an article.

As things are, however, these Doctor articles are huge and present real problems for our mobile visitors, especially those on slow connections. We should use this incident to consider ways to break up our larger articles into more specific chunks, rather than continuing to add every little detail to already-bloated pages.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  19:07: Thu 08 Feb 2018

The Day of the Doctor?[[edit source]]

When is it established that the events of The Day of the Doctor take place during Deep Breath for Twelve? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 104.175.51.158 (talk).

Onscreen evidence. The TARDIS interior, as much we see of it, is still the Matt Smith interior, so it can only happen before he redesigned it.BananaClownMan ☎ 00:16, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

River Song as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse[[edit source]]

Hi. I've seen a fair few edits now of River Song being removed and re-added to the infobox as the Twelfth Doctor's spouse, so I thought I would put in a friendly request for people to battle it out here in the talk page rather than edit warring. Or perhaps an admin could give a ruling on whether or not River should be included in the infobox? Thanks. LauraBatham ☎ 11:32, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Alternatively, join the conversation at Thread:277456. -- Saxon (✉️) 11:46, June 30, 2020 (UTC)
Ah sweet there is already a thread happening. That's a much better option. Sorry I didn't realise. LauraBatham ☎ 11:49, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

Infobox image question[[edit source]]

Currently, the Infobox image is this.

  • The current image.

    The current image.

Now, I think this is a very good image, and I don't intend to try to change it. However, the crop... isn't optimal.

Firstly, there is a fair bit of "dead space" to the left of the image, which not only looks a bit skewed, it also causes the Doctor's head to be on the far right, making the thumbnail image crop out the side of Twelve's head.

Secondly, the current crop is not compliant with T:GTI - the crop omits a good chunk of Twelve's forehead, and as the forehead is part of the face, it the crop should not go beyond that. T:GTI states that images should be cropped in on an individual's face, not just on the mouth, nose, and eyes.

So, I would like suggest this cropping of the image to replace the current one.

  • My proposed crop of the image.

    My proposed crop of the image.

I look forward to other users' input.

10:59, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

The cropped image looks good to me. The only improvement I could think of would be to maybe crop a little off the bottom so the image is less square, but that's just personal preference. LauraBatham ☎ 13:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
The cropped image looks decent but, just so everyone can make an informed decision, the original reasoning for why the specific cropping of the current image was chosen can be found at Talk:Twelfth Doctor/Archive 2#Conclusion. It also states the allocated time has passed to open up a discussion for an entirely new image if anyone has a good alternative. Borisashton ☎ 13:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, uh, once again, something that @CzechOut said hasn't aged well.
The FANDOM app has gone under... changes... since CzechOut's ruling; now, the image is at its worst on the mobile app.
  • In 2017.

    In 2017.

  • In 2022.

    In 2022.

See the issue?
I really do believe that we should fix this with my crop. 14:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
That screenshot from the FANDOM app really clinches that some change was necessary. The new, forehead-including crop has been implemented.


That being said, while I personally think that (crop notwithstanding) this remains a very good image, I want to make it clear that this is not a resolution against potentially putting forward an all-new image, if anybody has suggestions. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 14:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Update the link in description in "Clean up" template[[edit source]]

In "Clean up" template, there is "As detailed at Thread:264489, to avoid overly long articles, highly-recurring character pages' biography should only have AT MOST 2-3 sentences per story, not whole paragraphs of plot detail. This page needs a major cleanup in that area." However, the update of FANDOM causes links like [[Thread:264489]] is no longer supported now. Could someone fix the problem? Mariogoods ☎ 13:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Thing is, is that we don't really have anythang to change it to. All of the info was in that Forum thread we can no longer access.
Furthermore, we are waiting for one admin to bring back the Forums, as he claimed he had made an archive prior to the Forums becoming inaccessible, but the guy has been making empty promises for well over a year now. While things are stagnating in this Forum-limbo, there just isn't much we can do, as frustrating it is. 13:57, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for responding. I suppose it may be currently the only way to solve the problem. Mariogoods ☎ 22:07, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Also, I feel that archiving websites may contain the archived thread. You may be able to find archived version in these websites. Mariogoods ☎ 23:47, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
A few threads can be found on the Wayback Machine but by no means all. The forums were just not visited enough for most threads to be archived automatically. Moreover, when threads are on there, they often don't include the very end of the thread which is often the important bit with the closing post. There are some tricks you can use to access the old threads but they're not particularly easy to use. It's a really annoying situation. Bongo50 ☎ 10:48, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
I remember that thread and can explain. The conclusion was that Shambala108 decreed that character pages should only have 2-3 sentences per story. There was no guidance for how to actually implement this, so very few people have tried.
One approach has been pages for specific events, like Operation Mannequin, or larger "eras" in the Doctor's life, like Exile on Earth and The Doctor's early life. But I'm not sure if any parts of Twelve's life could be split off in that way.
Another possible idea would be using subpages: Twelfth Doctor/Biography could go as in-depth as possible, in which case Twelfth Doctor#Biography would provide a broad overview. But an in-universe subpage like this would be unprecedented and probably shouldn't be done without a larger discussion with admins. – n8 (☎) 14:31, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://tardis.wiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Twelfth_Doctor&oldid=3736224"