Category talk:Joyrider hosts

several suggestions

First of all, I think the idea of structuring Category:Human hosts is long overdue and am happy someone took it upon themselves to realise it. Having said that, may I consult on the issue for the betterment of the Wikia etc. etc. etc.?

First problem I see is that currently this categorisation only applies to human hosts, but in many cases also non-humans could have been hosts and may be hosts in the future stories. Granted, in many cases, we only have humans as hosts for now. But wouldn't it be prudent for future proofing to move this categorisation one level up to Category:Individual hosts? The added benefit of that would be that "human host" category would not be redundant on the character pages: now you would, in principle, need to remove it as being superseded by a better category.

Secondly, T:CAT NAME is rather harsh on the naming issue: it must be unambiguous. When the possession is by an individual or by a species, everything's fine. But for this here category, we have a possession using a piece of technology. The technology was never named in the story explicitly, and I (being the main editor of the novel on the Wikia) did not invent the name. "Joyrider" is the term used for the clients of Joyriders company. However, the technology was also used by the original alien proprietors of the technology and by Coal Hill defenders in retaliation. So about half of the people currently in the category should not be there under the current name. I'm guessing this is not what you intended. Am I right? Amorkuz ☎ 09:13, December 29, 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense to include the people taken over by the joyriders and not the Coal Hill defenders. They all became hosts in exactly the same way. Xx-connor-xX ☎ 13:44, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

At least I was right in guessing your original intent. Unfortunately, it does not match the current name of the category (nor its current description). Let me reiterate the policy I mentioned above: "Above all else, category names must not be open to multiple interpretation" and "Your category should unambiguously name its contents". "Joyrider hosts" means hosts used by clients of Joyriders company. No possible stretch of imagination can apply this monicker to a child taken over by a passing alien to seek help from the locals, which happened before Joyriders company was ever established.

I do agree with you completely that the category should be for everyone affected by this technology, but it requires renaming and redescribing the category. The best name I can come up with is "Human hosts of the alien technology, used by Joyriders company". If you can simplify it, I'd be happy. But the current name is way too simple to relay your meaning. Amorkuz ☎ 14:25, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

When the Coal Hill defenders used the tech they became Joyriders? Xx-connor-xX ☎ 14:30, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

No, joyriders used the technology to do things they would not be able to/not get away with in their own bodies, like suicide. Coal Hill defenders used the technology to bring joyriders to justice and/or punish them. They did not pay the company Joyriders and their actions resulted in the closure of the company for good. And then there is the original alien owner of the technology, who has nothing to do with the company (as in died before it was founded) and did not use it for joy or anything. They used the technology to perform physical work via local hosts because their own bodies were too weak.

Anyway, the category name must be unambiguous. The very fact that we initially disagreed on the definition, even if we eventually come to a consensus, means that the name has to be clarified. Amorkuz ☎ 14:38, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

I see, I thought that "Joyriding" was the act of using the tech. Xx-connor-xX ☎ 14:49, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

Ah, you haven't read the novel. Let me digest the relevant portions for you. An alien gets stranded on earth with a ship losing its power. It uses their mind transfer technology to take over Garth Todd and use his body to search for a source of power. It finds Garry Fletcher and explains its predicament. Garry kills all the aliens and the boy, takes over the technology and founds a company called Joyriders. He sells the use of technology for "joy rides" to rich people, asking no questions of what they do with the host bodies. Joyriders eventually get too close to Coal Hill defenders, taking over Ram Singh, plus a Joyriders employee, Steve Hopley, uses April MacLean's body to satisfy his alcoholism. By force and cunning, the Coal Hill defenders manage to take control of the technology, find files with joyriders' names and jump into their bodies to a) save their own lives, b) prove innocence of some hosts, c) get joyriders into trouble. Eventually, UNIT comes and cleans up the mess. Amorkuz ☎ 15:01, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

I have read the novel. However, I thought that because the Coal Hill defenders were using the tech in exactly the same way as the others were that they could be considered joyriders too. Xx-connor-xX ☎ 15:04, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

That's not how Category:Joyriders was built. It excludes the alien pilot and the Coal Hill defenders for the reasons I outlined above. Amorkuz ☎ 15:08, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

A long name is fine if required. If no name makes sense and also clearly marcates (that's a word, right?) what should be found within (hosts of the costumers/hosts of the aliens/hosts of other users of the tech), then this category fails per T:CAT NAMES. As it stands, the current name means to me that the category should only include hosts of those who used the Joyrider service, as a parallel category to category:Joyriders.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 07:47, January 3, 2017 (UTC)