Talk:Death's Head

Time Guardian

I'm seeking information on this one, haven't found even a reference to it yet. When DH and the Doctor first meet(are said to meet for the first time, I mean), a "Time Guardian" appeared. Who, or what, exactly is that? There are references to a time guardian in the Marvel Universe UK, concerning Killpower and DH II. Is it a creation from Marvel, then, or does it belong in the Dr. Who universe? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cyberman TM (talk • contribs) .

Basically it's supposed be a parody of police officers who arrive to access the damages of a car crash. The "Time warden" arrives due to 7 and Head colliding at the Crossroads of Time. OS25🤙☎️ 10:50, July 16, 2017 (UTC)

Last meeting between DH and Dr. Who

They met again, in the "Incomplete Death's Head" series, last issue. Likely a retcon, the Doctor claimed it's been him who dragged DH to the Transformers Universe and enlarged him. Their final meeting took place on Maruthea, shortly(?) after the party.

--Cyberman TM 18:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Death's Head 3.0 unrelated?

The conclusion of Death's Head 3.0 implied that he was going to be rebuilt into the original. If that's the case, he's definitely related to the Doctor. -72.215.154.250^{talk to me} 22:58, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Death's Head II

So now that The Incomplete Death's Head is valid, do we create a new page for Death's Head II or write about it on this page? Chubby Potato ☎ 17:28, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

My initial instinct is to put it all on one page. After all, the Master, the Monk, Rassilon and Ollistra all occupy into one page (though sometimes out of necessity rather than by choice). In other words, a mere changing of a body by an individual does not necessitate the creation of a new page. Nor does it preclude it as Romana I, Romana II, etc. show. But before we start discussing the benefits of separating, I do not remember off the top of my head whether "Death's Head II" is used in TIDH. I do not have time at the moment to reread it, so if somebody could double check this, would be great. We should be careful not to import Marvel designations from the larger Marvel universe. Amorkuz ☎ 22:01, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

The name Death's Head II is used on the covers, editor’s notes within the panels, and in “next time” notices (e.g. Next time: Death's Head II - trapped in cyberspace!), but not in the actual TIDH comic as far as I can tell. Do any of those count? Chubby Potato ☎ 22:39, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

I think this would be enough. I'll leave it to real experts on comics to comment on the common practices (in general and of Marvel UK in particular), but to me this is equivalent to audio/television credits, which we have used for naming pages since forever, even if the name is never pronounced onscreen. Amorkuz ☎ 23:08, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

I agree. Anyway, there are two sides to this. There is the fact that DH II appears in TIDH only and could seemingly be covered on one page, but also, DH II is quite a different character from the original. Another thing is since the only story DH II appears in is one that also has the original, it might be confusing to list both of of them of characters and link to the same page. I think one of the reasons we have different incarnations of characters like Rassilon or The Master is because we don’t always have a definitive differentiation between each incarnation, or which body it is. The Master has appeared in so many spin-off media with conflicting information it’s hard to split it up. However with Romana, it is made rather clear which incarnation is which. So I think we should give them separate pages. Chubby Potato ☎ 01:41, September 24, 2018 (UTC)

Two more procedural notes.

1. Since separating the two would still require keeping a page for the both of them (cf. Romana for Romana I and Romana II or K9 for K9 Mark I and K9 Mark II), the question is whether "Death's Head I" or some such is used in some of the stories. Because in this case Death's Head should clearly be reserved for all of his models.
2. I think that there are scenes involving only DHII, right? Otherwise, creating a page for him would be redundant as it would be essentially a shorter version of that for DHI. Amorkuz ☎ 07:27, September 24, 2018 (UTC)

I suppose you’re right. As far as I know “Death's Head I” is never used in comics, for sure in TIDH. I think the only reasons it’s used is because the second is referred to as “Death's Head II”. And having a disambiguation page called simply “Death's Head” could lead to more confusion rather than less. So would we link Death's Head II to a certain part of the article, as with The Master? Chubby Potato ☎ 20:23, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

Death's Head II is not original Death's Head. Minion (real name of DHII) originaly was the separate character and he absorbed personality of original DH and it became dominant in Minion's mind, this event wasn't mentioned but hinted at in TIDH.--Zagreus sits inside your head... ☎ 12:12, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Since it was not mentioned in any valid source, it is irrelevant for this wiki. Fear of going down the rabbit hole of distinguishing all versions of Captain America, or of Iron Man, or of Spider Man, or, in this case, of Death's Head, all versions that prolifically publishing Marvel has been and will be throwing at us, this fear was one of the major arguments against the inclusion of TIDH. Adherence to the text of TIDH and to nothing more was, therefore, one of the conditions of inclusion, explicitly stated in my ruling. Amorkuz ☎ 13:20, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Well, I've reread the series and found a phrase spoken by DHII in #2: "The original Death's Head construct is dominant implant of the 105 personalities doctor Necker programmed me with. Without it, I'd never broken her control". It is direct reference to the origin of the character.--Zagreus sits inside your head... ☎ 14:52, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

On the one hand, it rings a bell. But somehow I cannot find it. Which page is it on in issue #2? Amorkuz ☎ 22:48, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, it is on the last page of #1--Zagreus sits inside your head... ☎ 23:12, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Ok, that makes more sense. And can definitely be used on pages. Obviously, we still cannot use Minion and surely we're not gonna create 104 pages for other unnamed personalities. So this does not preclude any of the solutions. The way I see the options:

• We can still put all DH info on the page Death's Head.
• We can create one page for DHI, one page for DHII and one page for general info on DH. In this case, the question is how to name the three pages. This presupposes that DHI and DHII are mostly the same entity.
• We can create one page for DHI and one page for DHII. This presupposes that DHI and DHII are completely different characters.

An existing example of the first treatment is Jano or, more recently Doctor-Donna (it's a redirect). He was merged with the First Doctor's personality at some point, drastically changing his behaviour, but not precipitating a new page. There are plenty of examples of the second treatment, including K9. As for the third variant, maybe the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor is a somewhat similar case. Another more obscure case is First Doctor (mind copy) even though that is not merged with other personalities and is itself later merged back to the First Doctor. Amorkuz ☎ 06:29, September 29, 2018 (UTC)

While we wouldn’t use the name Minion, it is established that Death's Head II has all the memories of the original, which is the dominant personality, along with 104 others not specified. For reference, here is what he says in TIDH: “The original Death's Head construct is the dominant implant of the 105 personalities Doctor Necker programmed me with. Without it, I’d never have broken her control!”

This is the only valid info we have about this. Remember DHII has all the memories of the first, but it’s not established within TIDH how the other “personalities” work. How does that compare with the examples above? Chubby Potato ☎ 19:56, October 6, 2018 (UTC)

Oh, and the difference is the other 104 “personalities” are just instincts and abilities. When assimilating Death's Head, Minion not only downloaded the “personality” but all of Death's Head’s memories. He doesn’t have the memories of the others. But once again, this isn’t detailed in TIDH, so if we only consider that valid and pretend the other comics don’t exist, we wouldn’t know the exact meaning of personalities. Chubby Potato ☎ 20:06, October 6, 2018 (UTC)

With quite a few other pages being seperated, is it time to reopen this discussion? RadMatter ☎ 12:44, 30 November 2021 (UTC)