Howling:Series 5 plan out and theories

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This is my theory on to how the Series will span out... Since the Doctor shut the cracks up for a bit he needs to work out what's causing them, He thinks amy getting married has something to do with it so he runs away with amy and rory and takes them traveling for a bit until he works it out. He goes to Venice and meets vampires, then an entity called the Dream Lord somehow traps amy in a dream like trance making her think she's pregnant and she has to break out of the dream. Then the Doctor, amy an rory meet the silurians on 2015 then rory leaves. Th doctor and amy then meet vincent van gogh and help him fight off a yellow monster. Amy then gets taken away in the tardis and the doctor must stay on earth like a human until she catches up with him In time. Then the finale: the doctor and amy return to the day of amy's wedding day and meets River Song and battle the so called thing 'Pandorica'.

Overall this means that he meets River song for the first time in the finale which could possibly mean she is a human from amy's era and kill someone in the finale to be arrested. All this speculation about killing the doctor is still a little hazy because if she kills the doctor in the finale how can he be confirmed to be in series 6 and Christmas special?? And with the River saying in the library that her an the doctor travelled to the end of the universe will be in the finale with the doctor saying the cracks lead to the end of the universe.

Could the cybermen be re writing time with then being pulled into the time vortex (the next doctor) as they are going to be in the finale.

These are many of my theories of the series but what are yours???? -- Michael Downey 14:39, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

The thing that would be more than crappy is it it was all the doing of the Cybermen. Can't people be more original than that? We need to look at the bigger picture - they're nothing but one of the released enemies enemies in series 5. The Pandoirca is a fairytale, it is something ancient and lost, it seems. That's the real big bad. The leaked info for the finale refers to an ancient cliff-face and a puzzle box that opens from the inside, and it mentions some form of monatser that no one can stop or reason with, something that is the most feared thing ever. There is, without a doubt, some kind of ancient evil from beyond when behind it all. The finale has a few enemies released, but who is releasing them? Why is the crack following Amy, and what was the huge explosion? The crack itself seems to be an entity, and will undoubtly be be an enemy in the finale. Delton Menace 15:20, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Just because the Crack is following Amy doesn't mean that it's an intelligent entity. The Earth is attracted to the Sun without having to think about it, just because of gravity. Maybe the Crack is attracted to Amy because of... well, some natural phenomenon we don't know about yet, but presumably it would be related to her involvement in the history-ending explosion that happens at her wedding.

Of course it _might_ be an intelligent entity, or one might be somehow controlling it, but we don't know that yet, one way or the other.

As for completely-unfounded speculative theories, here's mine:

• The main enemy is the "Silent Menace", which will turn out to be some brand-new super-powerful threat that Moffat invented for this season.
• The SM finds and opens the Pandorica, as some kind of crazy plan vaguely reminiscent of the Discworld novel Hogfather.
• Opening the Pandorica causes all kinds of crazy side-effects.
• The Cybermen, Sontarans, etc. will only be peripherally involved. Maybe the SM is using them, or maybe they're taking advantage of the chaos (it's not like the Sontarans haven't done that in the past), but maybe they're just faced with the same danger as humanity, and, unlike RTD, who always just told us that all of reality was in danger, SM (Steven Moffat, not the Silent Menace) wants to actually show that vividly.
• The Crack is an unexpected side-effect of opening the Pandorica. While it causes all kinds of problems, in the end, it turns out to be the reason that the Doctor and Amy find out about the big problem and save the universe from the SM. Between that and erasing lots of uncomfortable continuity errors, we will all grow to love the Crack. (But not in the way that those people who hang out in front of the general hospital talking to themselves and to passing busses love the crack.)

Also, I know Moffat said the Kandyman thing was an April Fools joke, but if it's not true, can you tell me why actor David John Pope isn't working on anything else this year? (And don't try that tired old "because he retired from acting and moved to Spain 12 years ago to be a painter" excuse, that doesn't prove anything.) :) --Falcotron 16:03, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

I had a thought the other day - I think it's possible that the man River murders is Rory. If Rory travels with the Doctor and Amy through a few adventures, presumably he'll be allowed to do something "heroic" during one of them, maybe more, thus making him a "very good man", and as he's a human rather than a Timelord he could be the "best man" River has ever known. There's a possibility that the explosion is something to do with Rory, the Doctor assumes it's all about Amy, but it's Rory's wedding day too. That may be why River has to murder Rory, to save the universe, but she's then arrested because no matter how noble her intentions, she still committed murder. Any thoughts?

Also, what does anyone think about the lack of ducks in the duck pond? It seemed to be vaguely important in The Eleventh Hour, and then it's referenced again in Flesh and Stone. Red herring, or something more sinister? 159.92.57.11 09:49, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Rory is an interesting theory. My first thought was, they've already done that--Mickey the Idiot became a hero who Pete's World and then had to move to another dimension to find more saving to do. But then if someone described how Amy interacts with the Doctor as a companion (except for the end of Flesh and Stone), she'd sound an awful lot like Donna, and yet if you watch her she's nothing at all like Donna. So, I'm sure Moff could do the "Rory becomes a hero" without making it the Mickey story.

As for the duck pond, yeah, I think the line in Flesh and Stone implies that the ducks were erased from history, just like the Davros Daleks and the Victorian Cyberking. It's possible that this will be true but not all that important (the Silent Menace opens the Pandorica and starts throwing enemies pulled out of time at the Doctor--a Cyberking, an army of Daleks, some ducks, a Sontaran battle fleet...), but it doesn't seem likely that there's no connection at all. The Doctor missed things all the time--especially the 11th--but he rarely figures something out and then turns out to be completely wrong. --Falcotron 13:27, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

• I'm curious as to what extent you all think the events in 2009 will have on this series. I haven't been able to watch the 1st 3 of the 2009 specials but it seems to me the Doctor went a bit crazy with his time changing (especially on Mars). Do you think that this might have caused the time cracks? I can't remember which events the Doctor has specifically mentioned Amy as having forgotten, but I have a feeling that they all involved some major event of time erasure in and around their occurrance. The whole of humanity lost an entire year when the Master became prime minister--what year would they have lost--2008 or 2009? I read somewhere about the years not being congruent to our own which would make an episode airing in 2007 as having happened to them in 2008, but I'm probably mistaken. There's been a lot of mentioning about holes and cracks in space throughout the new series and according to all the theoretical physics I've come across (including a lot of sci-fi) traveling through space/time requires ripping the time/space continuoum apart and putting it back to gether again which I would think would necessitate the leaving of weak spots and cracks ready to be opened again. But then, maybe I'm still to close to the 9th and 10th Doctors who seemed so sure that *everything* was their (his?) own fault.

Yeah, it's possible that the Doctor broke time. Or that his little changes pushed it closer to the edge, so some trivial thing at Amy's wedding could be the straw that broke the camel's back. (That would completely destroy my pet theory of how Moffat views time travel, but that's OK.) In Father's Day, time was only broken locally, so the Reapers would have been able to "sterilize" it. But if time was broken a little bit here and there and everywhere, that might have be too much for them. Who knows?

You're right about the show being ahead of our world by a year (starting from when the 9th Doctor brought Rose home a year late)--the 2007 episodes took place in 2008. So, Last of the Time Lords (the series 3 finale, where the Master became PM, which aired in 2007) starts off in 2008, goes for a year into 2009, and then that whole year is undone, leaving the show back in 2008. The year ahead thing was fixed when the 2009 specials took place later in the same year (2009) as 2008's series 4.

The TARDIS travels through time by leaving the normal universe and going into the Time Vortex, flying there for a bit, then coming back into the normal universe. More like hyperspace than like a wormhole. So, I don't think time travel in general is likely to break the Whoniverse. But creating paradoxes or making things "wrong" might, as you started out suggesting.

Still, getting back to your original question, I think the specials will actually not have that much effect. Those were all written by RTD, and Moffat seems to be looking for a clean slate. He used the 2008 Daleks to throw them away and create the new/old Daleks, and he might similarly bring back the Next Doctor Cybermen to similarly throw them away in the finale, but that's all I expect to see of 2009 in 2010. --Falcotron 15:49, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure who the big bads will be in season five. The Daleks have been set up to return but i think its probably gonna be a evolution of the daleks journeys end type of a thing where we wont see what happens with the daleks for a year. Then again remember it has been a part of their history amy dosent remember, and after he mentioned that she should remember the daleks we saw the crack appearing in the wall, hinting they could be back, however as has been pointed out the cybermen were sucked back into the vortex at the end of the next doctor so at the very least they could be coming back through the cracks in time we keep seeing. I don't that it is the sonatrons that will be the big bads, it could be but they dont really have a link to whats going on. Winehousefan 22:24 may 7 2010

I think the Daleks will return, especially after the Nick Briggs interview I posted about elsewhere.

I'm not sure who (or what?) the big bad will be, but I think all of the other enemies will be almost incidental. They all got pulled out of time, and maybe the Doctor will have to face them (kind of like The Five Doctors), but either way, they won't be restored to time afterward.

And here's who I predict will be pulled out of time:

• The last of the RTDaleks, from Journey's End.
• The last of the Cybusmen in our universe, from The Next Doctor.
• The Sontarans behind ATMOS, from The Sontaran Stratagem.
• The branch of the Slitheen family from Aliens of London.
• Any other aliens/monsters that I've forgotten from both the RTD or classic series who became common knowledge before 2010 (except maybe the Loch Ness Monster, which Moff may just ignore).
• The ducks from the duck pond from The Eleventh Hour.

Why?

• Post-2010, nobody on Earth (other than the Torchwood/UNIT/etc. inner circle and a handful of past companions and other time travelers) knows about aliens. A clever way to get back to the old days where alien invasions were a big deal rather "sigh, another one?", without having to undo the entire RTD era.
• It fixes the continuity errors with people from the near future (everyone from Henry van Statten to Zoe Heriot) not knowing about the Daleks--because they never invaded (well, until 2164, but whoever's running the show in the 2160s can deal with that).
• The RTDaleks are gone for good, leaving only Moff's old-is-new VotD Daleks (who will appear again in season fnarg+1).
• The Cybusmen are locked away in Pete's World for good, leaving only the Mondasians if anyone wants to write a Cyberman story.
• There are still plenty of other Sontaran battle fleets out there, so they can reappear whenever necessary.
• There are still plenty more Slitheen (and other Raxicofallipatorians) for RTD to play with in SJA.

And I think these are all things that Moff wants to pull off.

Or is that just wishful thinking? --Falcotron 23:52, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

It would be cool if moffat tried to pull all that off, but i dont think he will. RTD was more fond of doing those cool comic booky all the villains meeting type of stories, than steven moffat, its not really his style. Then again he may want to seriously try and top journeys end, how do you do a bigger season finale than all of creation in danger, have all the the villains in it and have history itself in danger. In the end you never know what forces may be behind the season finale. I recall reading that the new design of Daleks was actually forced on them by a toy company who wanted to sell more Dalek toys, with all the different colours. Myabe it will just be the cybermen again because BBC want to sell cybermen toys and they have forced moffat to include them, we could see some really amazing new cybermen variants. I still think that whatever it is for whatever reason Moffat will be able to do it well, I remember from when i was young he used to appear on lots of documentary's about the cyberman, he even wrote quite a funny review about tomb of the cybermen in DW magazine, he also seems quite fond of the peter davison era when the cyberman were huge, so he might want to make them the big bads this season, give them a chance at doing it on their own in the new series. Matt smith also apparently loves tomb of the cybermen so maybe they will be the big bads. Winehousefan 11:57,May 8 , 2010 [UTC]

Well, as I said, I don't think any of them will be the big bad, and I suspect they'll all be incidental. They could be in the way as "level monsters before the boss monster", like The Five Doctors. But not necessarily. They could even work with the Doctor, or just be cameos, flying into the white and disappearing.

If it were RTD, I know how it would end. After getting past all of them, The Doctor in a position to close the crack in spacetime, but for some contrived reason he can only restore one group to history, and the rest will be gone for good. Can he let the last of the Davros-RTDaleks die again, after blaming Meta-10 for killing them the first time? The last of the Cybusmen, an endangered species? Margaret Slitheen, who he agonized over way back when he was 9? An entire Sontaran battle fleet--sure, they're just clones, but there are more of them than anyone else? The ducks, so cute and helpless? The Master, who wasn't even in here a second ago? There's only 10 seconds to spare! After 3 minutes of agonizing and arguing, there's now only 9 seconds to spare! But then the powers of Bad Wolf Rose, DoctorDonna, and some super-Martha that he forgot to mention before all get sucked out of history and somehow enter Amy, making her even more powerful than the three of them together, and, glowing like a goddess, she fixes everything. And we'd all be sitting in our couches, trying to say, "Oh, come on, seriously?" but unable to help ourselves from grinning and cheering.

Or, if it were up to the fans, Davros would pull off his mask and reveal himself to be the Master, the Cyberking would be the Rani, General Strak would be Borusa, Margaret would be Romana, the ducks would all be Susan, and they'd all go out for milkshakes. --Falcotron 12:53, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah RTD did use the deux es machine ending a couple of times, not saying he was a bad writer loved alot of his stuff, but i think that is a fair criticism. I always liked Martha I think its bit of a shame as you've pointed out that she was the only one who never got a cool super power. Jack became an immortal, Rose became Bad wolf and Donna got all the doctors knowledge, I hope Moffat dosen't follow RTD's pattern and make super Amy save the day, it will be too much to see the doctor bailed out at the last minute yet again, he keeps going on about how smart he is but he's been saved by some super variant of companion for a while now. Do you guys think Steven Moffat will follow RTD's pattern of making the companion the one to save the day completely, or do you think for the first time in years its gonna be the doctor who saves the day in the finale. Even in the end of time it was still the master who shoved the time lords back into the war, or hell. Winehousefan 14:25, May 8 2010 [UTC]

Personally, I loved that it was the Master who sent them back to hell, RTD ending his era with the Master redemption that was supposed to end the 3rd Doctor era if Roger Delgado hadn't died. And that's really the thing about RTD--you want to complain, "Oh god, did he really do that again?" but when you open your mouth to say that, what comes out is, "Oh wow, wow." And then you watch it again, and talk about it for days, and when you finally get over the coolness of it all, then you can start whining about the cheapness of it until you feel better about having been manipulated. :)

Anyway, I don't think Moffat will follow RTD's pattern. So far, he's exploring different ways that a companion can be used, all the way from helpless victim to parallel hero who solves one problem while the Doctor solves another, and I think he'll continue that. But my guess is that he wants to end his first season doing the one blindingly obvious thing that Doctor Who almost never pulls off: have the Doctor be the hero who saves the day, but with a crucial assist from his companion. --Falcotron 13:46, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

It would be good to see the doctor save the day again, I have liked the season finales but when you think about it he really has been useless, in alot of them, in badwolf/parting of ways it was entirely rose who vanquished the daleks, in last of the time lords it took him a whole year to sort it out and in journey's end it was completely donna that saved the day, that was the one thing that really bothered me about journey's end, I mean dont dislike donna but undermining everyone Jack, Martha, Rose, sarah and the doctor for donna is a bit much, though its true at the time I just thought that it was so cool every reality was in danger. Personally I hope your right and he dosent follow RTD's pattern Journey's end was really thrilling [no matter how many times you watch it] but it would actually be interesting to see different types of companions though you never want one who is too much of a wimp like melanie bush. This is sort of off topic but do you guys think that the new series will ever kill off a companion like Adric. The old series did it very rarely but the new one might, I've read that Amy will be here until series 6 by that time two years on the show she and the doctor will be very close so they will have to give a very big reason for her not being there. I know in the old series companions were there for ages and left no big deal but it has always been quite a big deal in new who whenever a companion leaves, Jack is made immortal, Rose trapped in parrallel world Martha has to leave because she is in love with him, and Donna's memories are wiped, and at wto years Amy will have been there the longest since Rose.-Winehousefan 16:26 May 8 2010 [UTC]

I like your take on having different types of companions. Hopefully after Moffat gets through exploring how much you can possibly get out of a single companion, he'll move on to that next.

As for killing them off--well, as far as real deaths go, Adric is really the only recurring companion who ever died. Sara Kingdom, Lynda with a y, Astrid Peth, and Adelaide Brooke were one-shot companions, and Katarina (half of one story and half of the next) and Kamelion (theoretically there for a year, but neither seen nor mentioned during that time) might as well have been. Jack, River Song, and K-9 are recurring companions, but (for different reasons) they were alive and available to appear in the show after dying, so it doesn't really count.

That being said, I think the classic show did a decent job dealing with Adric's death and how it affected Tegan and the Doctor, and even with Steven and the Doctor earlier. And the much more tightly-controlled modern show could do even better, but RTD never really tried it. So I think Moff will do it at some point.

In fact, he might even make Rory a recurring companion this season and then kill him off at the end. --Falcotron 17:52, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah actually having just seen vampires in venice rory does look like he could be killed off . Back to series 5 plan just having seen vampires in venice I wonder if this silence is a big bad or just a name for an already well known villain like the darkness, as someone pointed out maybe the doctor will have to team up with the daleks cybermen and sontarans to stop this threat, cant wait to find outwhat these cracks are. Winehousefan19:01 May 8, 2010 [UTC]