Talk:The Land of Happy Endings (comic story): Difference between revisions
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In short, I think the ending is more ambiguous than how it has been covered, so does anyone have any input on how to treat this story with more nuance? {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 20:35, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | In short, I think the ending is more ambiguous than how it has been covered, so does anyone have any input on how to treat this story with more nuance? {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 20:35, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | ||
: I think there's yet another reading, i.e. that it's a butterly-who-dreamt-he-was-a-man-who-dreamt-he-was-a-butterfly thing — with two equally real Doctors in equally real worlds dreaming each other into existence — and the Gladstone bag is a moment of bleed between the two worlds. It's a very tricky story. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 01:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | : I think there's yet another reading, i.e. that it's a butterly-who-dreamt-he-was-a-man-who-dreamt-he-was-a-butterfly thing — with two equally real Doctors in equally real worlds dreaming each other into existence — and the Gladstone bag is a moment of bleed between the two worlds. It's a very tricky story. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 01:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | ||
:: This is the correct reading, at least in my opinion. Clayton has a quote in the ''Stripped for Action'' documentary where he says both worlds are equally "real". Thus, if you believe the John and Gillian world is a dream you must also believe the DWM world is a dream - the two Doctors dream of each other. But no matter the case - the point of this story is certainly not "TV Comic doesn't count now because DWM says it's stupid," a narrative pushed by some admins in the past. It's a story about fantasizing about childhood and innocence after the Doctor has been through a specifically tough period of his life. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 05:16, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: Correction on my previous point - it's actually a [[Scott Gray]] quote, and you can see it at the bottom of [[John and Gillian's world]]. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 05:19, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::I also agree. Even setting aside the {{w|dream argument}} matter of "worlds", it's rather conjectural to state as fact "this source says John and Gillian were just a dream", even if that is one ''possible'' reading. To neutrally cover it would be to say "in this source, the [[Eighth Doctor]] dreamt of John and Gillian." [[User:Chubby Potato|Chubby Potato]] [[User talk:Chubby Potato|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:55, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 06:55, 26 January 2024
Coverage[[edit source]]
For a good while this story has been cited on the Wiki to say that John Who and Gillian Who only exist as dreams had by the Doctor, but this isn't the case. After awakening from his dream, the Doctor looks at his Gladstone bag from the original comic strips, heavily implying that while his grandchildren only exist to him now as dreams, it never meant that they weren't real, or that, for another explanation, they did exist but not in the way they were originally depicted.
In short, I think the ending is more ambiguous than how it has been covered, so does anyone have any input on how to treat this story with more nuance?
20:35, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think there's yet another reading, i.e. that it's a butterly-who-dreamt-he-was-a-man-who-dreamt-he-was-a-butterfly thing — with two equally real Doctors in equally real worlds dreaming each other into existence — and the Gladstone bag is a moment of bleed between the two worlds. It's a very tricky story. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 01:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- This is the correct reading, at least in my opinion. Clayton has a quote in the Stripped for Action documentary where he says both worlds are equally "real". Thus, if you believe the John and Gillian world is a dream you must also believe the DWM world is a dream - the two Doctors dream of each other. But no matter the case - the point of this story is certainly not "TV Comic doesn't count now because DWM says it's stupid," a narrative pushed by some admins in the past. It's a story about fantasizing about childhood and innocence after the Doctor has been through a specifically tough period of his life. OS25🤙☎️ 05:16, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- Correction on my previous point - it's actually a Scott Gray quote, and you can see it at the bottom of John and Gillian's world. OS25🤙☎️ 05:19, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- I also agree. Even setting aside the dream argument matter of "worlds", it's rather conjectural to state as fact "this source says John and Gillian were just a dream", even if that is one possible reading. To neutrally cover it would be to say "in this source, the Eighth Doctor dreamt of John and Gillian." Chubby Potato ☎ 06:55, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
