Howling:Son of God Goes Forth to War

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User:Boblipton mentioned the similarity between "A Good Man Goes to War," and the title of a hymn, "The Son of God Goes Forth to War." See that thread (which is largely unrelated to this one... OR IS IT!!!) here.

Now that I read the lyrics again, I'm struck by some lines that seem to connect directly to episodes. Didn't want to derail that thread with something relatively off-topic, so here goes:

The Son of God goes forth to war, A kingly crown to gain;
--Unknown episode

His blood-red banner streams afar: Who follows in His train?
--The Doctor's Wife (Amy's vision of crimson)

Who best can drink his cup of woe, Triumphant over pain,
--Unknown episode

Who patient bears his cross below, He follows in His train.
--The Beast Below

The martyr first, whose eagle eye Could pierce beyond the grave,
--The Impossible Astronaut

Who saw his Master in the sky, And called to Him to save:
--Last of the Time Lords

Like Him, with pardon on his tongue, In midst of mortal pain,
--Unknown episode

He prayed for them that did the wrong: Who follows in his train?
--Unknown episode

A glorious band, the chosen few On whom the Spirit came,
--Journey's End

Twelve valiant saints, their hope they knew, And mocked the cross and flame.
--Unknown episode*

They met the tyrant's brandished steel, The lion's gory mane,
--The King's Demon?!?

They bowed their necks, the death to feel: Who follows in their train?
--The Stolen Earth

A noble army, men and boys, The matron and the maid,
--A Good Man Goes to War (?)

Around the Savior's throne rejoice, In robes of light arrayed.
--Unknown episode

They climbed by strength divine from heaven, Through peril, toil, and pain:
--Unknown episode**

O God, to us may grace be given To follow in their train.
--Unknown episode

A couple of the un-starred "unknowns" seem to me like generalities; typical sentiments a companion or group of companions might say at a difficult time. The first one I starred, about Twelve valiant saints, could be the Doctor's first twelve regenerations. The second I starred, about climing by strength divine from heaven, sounds potentially like a re-emergence of Gallifrey.

Anyway... it struck me, so I had to put it out there. Thoughts?

PS: A couple faults with my format; I took the rhythm pattern strictly rather than using punctuation or a "whatever works" approach; some of the episodes were pre-Moff, which seems a touch unlikely from some POVs; and, I'm human... always seeing patterns in things that aren't there. Agonaga 19:23, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

PPS: The etymology of the word "good" is just an elongated form of the word God, see [1], as in Goodbye being a shortened form of "God by ye." Agonaga 19:30, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid you have taken my brief thought and expanded it beyond all bounds, just as you have done with my name. And your etymology is wrong.Boblipton 21:30, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

Corrected the name mistake, no harm done I hope. It's not my etymology, it's Etymonline's etymology, although on checking, I do see others have pinned it on different roots. I do hope you're less cross than you sound, for your sake. Agonaga 22:05, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

To the extent that I am cross, it is at the seeming incomprehension of the process and problems of writing. Writing Doctor Who is not an exercise in cryptographic substitution codes, nor is it a problem in algebra in which we let X=The Doctor, Y=the Master and Z=something or other. It is a rather complex operation involving the English language, a dozen actors, dozens of behind the screen talent and a large, amorphous and rather cranky audience spread out over fifty years and dozens of cultures. The title suggests something on the order of The Son of God Goes Forth to War, but to what extent and to whom is indefinite and communicates different things to different people. Had I not pointed it out, it would seem to have meant nothing to you and to large portions of the audience. It is meant to suggest the story in a short squib that will excite the interest of someone seeing it in a newspaper. It is a simile; but, to cite an example of false substitution, just because you and I are both primates does not mean we are either baboons or the leading official of a church.

Of course there is something godlike about the Doctor, something which has been commented on in the series on several occasions. He has powers and abilities far beyond mortal man. Mostly, though, he accepts responsibility and urges others to do likewise. But if all he was was that godlike figure, it would hold little interest to me. It is his crotchets that interest me, and the jokes and sadness. I look forward to being surprised. It surprises me that more people don't. Boblipton 22:45, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, it's just for fun. That fun spans from "wouldn't it be a trip if (Character X) was secretly (Character Y) plotting to (Agenda Z)" which of course is near the pure trash side of fun... to the fact that similar speculation correctly guessed that there was a "Finale Doctor" to be watched for. I look forward to being surprised, and I hope in most cases the authors have better ideas than me, but it's art. Art's meant to be chewed upon and turned into a conversation. Of course that's what this forum is for, and of course you know all this, but it's the case in point. I'm sorry if my taking your interesting cue and running so far with it, feels as if I've explained the magic and stripped its charm out, or more like explained it while simultaneously demonstrating how to do it all wrong. We all enjoy the show for different reasons, probably. Me, I like to track long running plot threads over long periods of time; the Doctor's ongoing character growth is my #1 draw to the show, with a close second being the urge to whittle out what he's keeping from his companions because it's too horrible, or too uncertain, to trouble them with. (Guessing I'm a 7th Doctor fan, would be guessing right.) So, Moff's writing style suits me perfectly, because he does plant those threads and leave clues for us to tease out. It makes the show into a bit of a game, which, again, is (partly, and IMO) why this forum exists. FINALLY on a more directly personal note, sorry I took your first post to this page badly and replied with snark. Brusque-seeming comments on forums are a pet peeve, especially because I tend to retort in kind, which is a crappy strategy when I haven't bothered knowing the mind behind the comment. I hope all's well and mended. Agonaga 01:10, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

There are people who take Nostradamus quatrains and try to fit them to events in the last few centuries of history in order to find some big warning for the end of the world next year. Those people are silly. There are also people who take Nostradamus quatrains and try to fit them to events in the last few centuries just for fun. Those people are also silly, but in a good way.

The same is pretty much true here. It could be fun to see how well you can work this out. And it's largely the same kind of fun as coming up with fanwanky explanations for plot inconsistencies (e.g., can you find a way to make everything in War of the Daleks actually plausible?). So, even if trying to use it to predict what the Moff has in store for us later this season is pointless (which it certainly is), it can still be entertaining, if taken in the right spirit. --99.8.228.227 03:40, June 5, 2011 (UTC)