Talk:Bernice Summerfield

	Archives: #1

Tabbed Infobox

Bernice Summerfield
Main aliases:	see list
Species:	Human
Job:	Archaeologist

So, following the consensus at Temporary forum:Overhaling image policies, and the added clarification at the forum's talk page, reopening this discussion is now approved.

Now, we've had this debate many times and overwhelmingly I've felt that we've never left with anyone happy. The main strife has always been the disagreement about which Benny should be in the infobox: The Lee Sullivan 'Novel' Benny, or the Lisa Bowerman 'audio' Bernice. In the past, we've settled on using comic images which are occasionally off-model or poorly suited for either. As of this moment, the infobox image is a weird "compromise," where it's an illustration of the "Novel" Benny clearly intended to look like Lisa Bowerman. I feel this just gives a confused vibe, and doesn't help.

BUT! Due to the aforementioned debate covering tabbed infobox images, I think I now have a solution. We have a tabbed gallery in the main box, which will include one image each of the two main "Benny" incarnations. I've selected two images, one from GRAPHIC: Untitled by Lee Sullivan and the other from the inner illustrations of AUDIO: Blood & Steel, and used these for a conceptual tabbed gallery. I even tracked down DWM 267 to scan the former myself.

The only controversial part here is that I've made the tabbed gallery "chronological," so the original Lee design appears first. But this helps display the two main incarnations of Miss Summerfield, and I feel is also really fun to switch back-and-forth between. Obviously, we could also get into the argument of if each of these images are perfect... But I think these are ultimately the right picks.

Showing a more recent image of Lisa Bowerman lets us use tab terms that are in-universe. I think it would look a lot worse if it said "Illustrated" and "Live-action." I also just think we're not going to find a better illustration of Lee Sullivan's Benny design.

Please tell me what you all think! OS25🤙☎️ 03:09, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Would prefer Lisa Bowerman to be first, but it's not a battle I'm going to win here. Likewise, I actually think I would prefer "Illustrated" and Live-action", but the images here are perfect. I bemoan the fact that the highest quality unobscured shot of Bowerman that fits our rules isn't in her traditional costume, but I'm sure that'll EVENTUALLY rectify itself. As it stands, I'm okay with this. NoNotTheMemes ☎ 02:26, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

I support this change, and in particular I really appreciate the way the two proposed images overlap in head angle and eye placement. Like Memes I'm not sure if "Young" and "Older" are the best names for the tabs, but whatever we end up going with, this will be a big improvement to the page! – n8 (☎) 13:17, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree with these images, including the order, but I would label the tabs "Novel" and "Audio" (or perhaps "Prose" and "Audio"). The adaptation from one medium to the next is the real reason these two Bernices are distinct enough to be worth presenting side by side, so labelling them as if the reason were that she got older just feels a bit confusing. It would also open the door to adding tabs whenever a character naturally and visibly ages to some degree, which doesn't seem viable or quantifiable. And there are probably other characters who were first illustrated and were later cast - for example, Jason Kane. We'll want to be able to give them tabbed galleries that follow a consistent format, but it won't always be possible to fudge one medium's iteration as having aged into the other, so making it explicit that we're arranging them by medium seems important. PintlessMan ☎ 13:29, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

I think a tabbed infobox is a wonderful idea, and those two images are really well picked. They actually offer a really good general view as to what Benny actually looks like, which is something the previous view infobox images failed to do in my opinion. As Benny is first and foremost a prose character, I think this order is the best possible one. I am not entirely sure "young" and "older" are the best titles, and maybe something more akin to which medium the images cover would be good (maybe something like "prose" or "audio" though both of these don't seem quite right either). That is, however, a small details, and the only flaw I can find in this proposal. Benny is a character that is dearest to my heart than just about any other fictional character, and I believe this would be a huge improvement to her page and coverage on this wiki. Liria10 ☎ 22:59, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay, a full month since the last reply. I think a lot of people are burnt out on these discussions, and there's a lot of other ongoing threads elsewhere, of course; so it's only to be expected that this wouldn't get vast outpourings of support. But we've had a nice selection of people chiming in positively under the circumstances, with thoughtful commentary rather than just "yes that's nice", so I think the time has come to close this. It's just a very, very good idea. Such nicely-matched images are an occasion to be seized, and policy-wise, the major updates to our image policy were reason enough to revisit this.

So yes, we're implementing this, and in accordance with suggestion, I'm going to go ahead and authorise the "Prose"/"Audio" tabs. This can be used in other analogous cases, but obviously, let's not carried away — for the time being stick with illustration-first, much-later-cast characters; let's not be adding images in every medium for every Doctor, or anything like that. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 17:25, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

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