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"That is to say, nobody came before Hartnell, he in my mind is the definitive First Doctor" <--As you said, in your mind. There's not much basis for that assumption. [[Special:Contributions/184.166.6.102|184.166.6.102]]<sup>[[User talk:184.166.6.102#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:02, May 19, 2013 (UTC) | "That is to say, nobody came before Hartnell, he in my mind is the definitive First Doctor" <--As you said, in your mind. There's not much basis for that assumption. [[Special:Contributions/184.166.6.102|184.166.6.102]]<sup>[[User talk:184.166.6.102#top|talk to me]]</sup> 16:02, May 19, 2013 (UTC) | ||
I think 90's right, or at least, those were the same conclusions I reached on my own. I don't think that 9-11 actually forgot him, although they might have tried really hard. But we don't see the Doctor referring back to previous incarnations often, so it's not much of a surprise that we haven't heard of him before from the Doctor's perspective. One of the reasons I think Hurt comes between 8 and 9 is because you can see a darkness around him; a darkness not present in 8 yet obviously present in 9, although it seems 9 is trying to get away from it, trying to escape the horror he caused. There is residual darkness that can be see in 10 and then, to a lesser extent, 11, which I think helps date Hurt's incarnation to before 9 as the darkness is going away, or at least being buried, by his later incarnations. This, along with all the other evidence stated above convinces me of his placement in the Doctor's time line, as well as the fact that this is the first time any Doctor has outright said they are incarnation such-and-such of the Doctor (in ''The Lodger'' it was implied, and the audience interpreted based on already known information, however it wasn't stated outright), coupled with the statement that Hurt isn't the Doctor, but he is the same Time Lord as 11. The only other option I can see is that he's a future Doctor which 11 had seen earlier or as a result of entering his own time line. [[User:Imamadmad|Imamadmad]] ([[User talk:Imamadmad|Contact me]]) 23:58, May 19, 2013 (UTC) | |||