Talk:Tenth Doctor/Archive 4

	This page is an archive. Please do not make any edits here. Edit the active conversation only.

King of England?

Should we add the Tenth Doctor to the 'English monarchs' category, for marrying Elizabeth?Liam Mars ☎ 12:34, December 1, 2013 (UTC)

No, because the spouse of a monarch isn't a monarch. He is part of category:English royalty, but not category:English monarchs.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  15:19: Sat 07 Dec 2013

Indeed; his title would be Prince Consort of England rather than King, despite his own statement of "I'm gonna be king!" in The Day of the Doctor. - MrSiriusBlack ☎ 14:20, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

Return of the 'Doctor Loved Rose' debate

So early last year there was a huge debate here on whether or not The Tenth Doctor loved Rose. But I have found new evidence suggesting that he does, from the 2006 episode School Reunion:

The Doctor: "I don't age. I regenerate. But humans decay. You wither and you die. Imagine watching that happen to someone you..." (Hesitates and fails to finish his sentence)

Rose Tyler: "What, Doctor?"

The Doctor: "You can spend the rest of your life with me. But I can't spend the rest of mine with you. I have to live on, alone. That's the curse of the Time Lords."

Now, I know, once again, that he doesn't directly say that he loves her, but he was undoubtedly heading in the direction of saying it when he hesitated, if you know what I mean. MrSiriusBlack ☎ 16:30, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Haven't really read the arguments since they were up, so I don't have a direct comment on this debate (my two cents were it was unspoken and alluded to), but I always took "someone you" as hesitating in saying he loved Sarah Jane in the past. Think about the lines leading into your quote.

Rose: I thought you and me were...but I obviously got it wrong. I've been to the year five billion, right, but this, no, this is really seeing the future: you just leave us behind. Is that what you're gonna do to me?

Doctor: No, not to you.

Rose: But Sarah Jane. You were that close to her once, and, now, you never even mention her. Why not?

Doctor: I don't age. I regenerate... -- Tybort (talk page) 18:00, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

OH...I'm a genius. asdfghjkl; MrSiriusBlack ☎ 20:51, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Temporary block on page editing

I'm blocking this page for an hour so that User:Masterpwn and User:92.15.155.159 have a chance to read our policy on edit wars. Start a discussion here on the attempted change to the page. Once the protection expires, there will be no back and forth editing on this further issue. Shambala108 ☎ 16:43, April 10, 2014 (UTC)

New Infobox Box Image

I'd like to propose a change to the current Tenth Doctor infobox image "TenSpecsBiggerSmileLeftSITL.jpg" to the file I recently uploaded entitled "Tenth Doctor Water of Mars.jpg", as the image is higher quality, and "more up to date" (as up to date as we can get, excluding screenshots from the End of Time and Day of the Doctor). When editing the page I discovered I could not change the image without community discussions, however I couldn't do that until December 2012, which was over a year ago. Sabovia^{Talk to me} 04:26, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

One problem is that the image you uploaded is a bit squished horizontally.

But the other issue is that when someone asks for a Doctor or companion image to be changed, they are usually reminded that we have tons of articles on the wiki that don't have any images at all, and that is really more of a priority than starting a new round of voting for a Doctor that isn't current any more. There's no rule that says the image of a Doctor must come from as up-to-date a story as possible.

Off topic, something is wrong with your signature, as it doesn't have a link to your user page and your talk page, as is required by Tardis:Signature Policy. Shambala108 ☎ 06:05, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Image change

Having the glasses on the main image kind'a gives off the impression they were part of his main attire, plus you can nly realy see his face, and not in his pest angle if you ask me.BananaClownMan ☎ 18:33, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Have you read Tardis:Guide to images? The tightly cropped faces are exactly what we want for infoboxes. Shambala108 ☎ 18:39, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Proposal #1

Removed from personality section

This incarnation had a very forgiving nature, consistently extending an offer to help even his most dangerous enemies before putting a stop to their evil deeds. (TV: Evolution of the Daleks) He was even willing to forgive the likes of Davros and the Saxon Master. (TV: Last of the Time Lords, Journey's End, The End of Time) However, when his patience reached its limit or his enemies were duplicitous, they received no mercy or second chances. (TV: The Christmas Invasion, The Family of Blood)

While it's probably not too speculative to say the Daleks are the Doctor's enemy given they describe each other as such in-story, T:NPOV says to avoid subjective terms like "evil" or "evil deeds", and the Doctor's complicated relationship with his old childhood friend (at least Ten and Twelve) puts the whole "dangerous enemy" into question with the Master, even if they fall under "dangerous". Also, the Family of Blood and the Sycorax? One off aliens as "enemies"? -- Tybort (talk page) 07:02, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

I sort of dispute the "willing to forgive Davros" bit as well, unless I'm thinking of a different definition of "forgive", considering he didn't really have the sentiment of his childhood friend, or see the possibility of changing the Daleks and giving them a new home. In The Stolen Earth, after Davros spoke to him on the Sub-Wave, the Doctor effectively just said "Bye," while in Journey's End, he refused to go on any nostalgia tour with Davros and wanted him to get to the point of the matter. -- Tybort (talk page) 01:36, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to request permission to add a re-done version of this with more acceptable wording. Is it alright? The Fox King (talk) 02:36, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Page locked

This page is locked for a week due to edit wars among three users. The current version, posted by User:The Fox King, will stand for now. Anyone who has a problem with that edit must give a reason here. Once the protection is lifted, any further edit warring will be met with a block.

For the record, user:The Fox King is the only one who has given valid reasons for their edit. That's why I've left the page at his/her edit. Removing content without explanation is highly discouraged; if you disagree with someone's edit, address it on the article talk page or their talk page. Shambala108 ☎ 13:40, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

Just to make sure I'm following the rules correctly, I'm posting here that I'm making an edit to this portion of the Tenth's personality section and will add to the sentences and re-arrange the the references to be placed where they correspond with the information relative to them. The Fox King (talk) 00:18, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Grammar

I have a question. I have found some errors in the grammar and spelling in some words. (I am a grammar nazi). I was just wondering if I could just change the spelling or arrangements of words or finish a word that doesn't look right anonymously. MistressSusan ☎ 23:12, May 11, 2015 (UTC)MistressSusan

Despite what you might see on some articles here, we do care about proper grammar and spelling. Before you do any edits, however, please make sure you are familiar with Tardis:Spelling and Tardis:Quotation marks.

There's no need to edit anonymously; several people (including myself) make grammar and spelling edits with their user names. However, if you'd really rather edit anonymously, you would have to be signed out. Shambala108 ☎ 23:50, May 11, 2015 (UTC)

Preventing a revert war

It seems another revert war may happen on here when it shouldn't, so I'm starting a new topic for discussion. The edits I've just made to this article are backed by citations and, from watching the episodes, better reflect what happened and Ten's personality better. For example, saying he "occasionally got into trouble because of an apparent sense of superiority over those less "clever" than he was" is false since he never did, and the Midnight incident was used as a citation, even though the Doctor was only trying to help those humans, not boasting superiority to them and calling them his inferiors. He felt he'd be needed if the creature was hostile and as a Time Lord, hes the last person it would need to become given his faults and uniqueness, so saying that was a bit harsh and unfair. Also, when he said to Rose and Harriet that he was the same man as 9 was, he mean't identity-wise, not as a person since he was a new personality overall. He even said he "literally didn't know who he was", just his identity as the Doctor. What he said to Wilf about 11 not being the same "man" as him I think mean't personality-wise from what he was saying, such as "Everything I am dies(including personality). Some new man goes sauntering away". Because there are multiple ways that can be interpreted, I removed that bit from the section as its unreliable and can cause revert wars. I also removed the bit about him having a sense of arrogance as its false, since he didn't and only occasionally became arrogant when enraged. Saying he had a "sense of arrogance" implies he was always like that. Also, the needless removal of accurate information, such as Ten's ability to pilot the TARDIS skilfully made no sense. Could someone explain that? What everyone's take on all this? The Fox King (talk) 19:45, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

A replay with a numeral listing... 1) There's no evidence he encaged in choitus with Elizabeth, it could have just as easily been a joke about how she was called so due to being unmarried.

2) His TARDIS flying skills aren't anything to boast about. He drifted of course just as much as other Post-Third Doctors. In fact, if anything, he was probably the worst pilot of them all, considering how hectic the TARDIS was when landing.

3) When talking to Rose and Harriet, he talks in great detail the events that Nine lived through, clearly using this as evidence of them being the same person. Regardless, personality had little to do with what he talked to Wilf about, he was more concerned about another man going around and using Ten's experience to prove he's still the Doctor.

4) Ten does act like he knows better in Midnight, which can also be described as him saying he's superior. Regardless, he acts like that on a number of occasions, but Midnight serves as a highlight and the only source available at present. In fact, Midnight was conceived with the idea of turning the Doctor's "listen to me 'cause I'm clever" m.o. against him, as Russell T. Davies confirms of Confidential.

5) Ten was always arrogant, it just manifested from the obviously enraged to the mildly teasing. In fact, arrogance is one of the Doctor's defining traits in his various incarnations, with Ten just being a more notable example.

6) Ending this, I'd like to add that, despite my previous advice, you still don't italicise story links, which sadly falls under the "removing poor grammer" category.

If you have any further questions or points to make, I implore you to state them here. BananaClownMan ☎ 21:19, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, his statement to Ood Sigma about her nickname no longer being accurate can only mean they had sex some time. On Midnight, Ten was only trying to help those humans, and his superior behavior had nothing to do with his statement about being clever as they forced that out of him by insisting on an answer to that question when he kept saying that wasn't important in the situation at hand. Wrong, Ten was not always arrogant. He didn't always go around thinking everyone was beneath him. He just occasionally became arrogant when enraged, so saying he had a sense of arrogance was false. In fact only the First, Sixth, Ninth, Eleventh,and Twelfth Doctors have shown a general sense of arrogance. Two, Three, Four, Five, Seven, Eight, Ten, and the War Doctor didn't. Seen them all, so I know. Ten also was shown better at piloting the TARDIS than any other incarnation, landing in the exact same spot he took off from in under 30 seconds when leaving to take his tie off in front of Martha and returning to where she was later that night in Smith and Jones. The Fifth Doctor also openly praised his piloting abilities with the TARDIS in Time Crash, saying "I've never seen anyone who could fly the TARDIS like". He also landed perfectly in Martha's room in The Lararus experiment, so yes he was exceptional at piloting the TARDIS. As to the TARDIS rocking about when he'd fly it, it is made to be piloted by 6 people at once, so thats why. After being forced to completely regenerated itself following Ten's regeneration, the TARDIS' operations became much more smooth. As to italicising, I've no idea what that is. Show me an example please. Update: I have done a revert, but hit the option for italic. Was that how to italicise the sentences and references? The Fox King (talk) 22:36, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

It is custome on this wiki to italicise hyperlinks to episodes, which are done by putting the episode between [[two opposing brackets]], highlighting the brackets, and clicking the I icon.

Plus, I don't know how you choose to watch Doctor Who, but Ten is the kind to make hyper-intelligent jokes that only he would understand. I'll admit, I though the same at first, but a quick trip to TV Tropes later, it ended up making more sense to me that it was a joke about her historian nickname, rather than him making a "totally laid her" quip. Considering there is no on-screen confirmation, and that you are the only one who seems to support the "10+Queen=Sex" theory, wiki rules permit us from putting any indication of sexually activity going on.

Who said any thing about Ten going around thinking people were beneath him. Well, except briefly in WoM with Mia and Yuri. The Tenth Doctor's arrogance was a part of his ego, with him thinking he was the highest of authorities and that he could make a laugh out of a werewolf attacking Queen Victoria.

The TARDIS returning can easily be from using the Fast return switch, which is more pushing a button than any kind of fancy workmanship. Five's remarks also don't hold a candle when you remember he was just coping his own memory of the incident, like how my sister of a gymnast practices her routine by re-watching old recordings of herself. And, as for the six pilot, the Mark 40 TARDIS was built to have six pilots at all times, so tell me, Your Highness, why didn't his processors also have the violet bumpy rides seen in Tooth and Claw and The Lazarus Experiment? BananaClownMan ☎ 23:00, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

Him being able to show joy in the the werewolf incident was out of wonder, not arrogance. And him not going around thinking everyone beneath himself proves hes not arrogant as thats what arrogance is. A predetermined sense of superiority regarding one's self or accomplishments. He didn't unfairly think he was more intelligent, better, or above others in any general way, so he wasn't generally arrogant, just became that way when enraged, such as in The Christmas Invasion, New Earth, and The Waters of Mars with regards to Harriet Jones, Novice Hame, and Mia and Yuri when talking with Captain Brooke, wherein what you mentioned about being the highest of authorities was shown. But it was all caused entirely by rage. Otherwise, he just showed great pride in his high intelligence and didn't bother feigning modesty at times. But since he usually more than justified any such statements of superior intelligence, he wasn't being arrogant. As to the TARDIS rocking around during Ten's time, it didn't always as even though it did during earlier episodes, his skill at piloting it improved greatly in later episodes, especially season 3 and 4. In the episode 42 for example, it was better than it had been earlier in the season, not rocking or bumpy at all. The last time it did rock was in The Stolen Earth, where he had to either travel in a hurry or into pocket of time creating by an out-of-sync space-time rift. So saying that he was exceptional at piloting the TARDIS overall is accurate, even if he had moments where it got bumpy. Going over all Ten's episodes, most of the time he piloted the TARDIS is didn't get bumpy. Also, in the end, he never missed the intended time period unless the TARDIS deliberately took him where he NEEDED to be instead of where he wanted, as she confessed to the 11th in The Doctor's Wife. Reviewing that, I don't see why it getting bumpy a few times matters to his skill at piloting it when previous incarnations had much smoother rides, but still missed the intended time period completely. I suppose we can agree to disagree on the sex with Queen Elizabeth thing, and I'll never edit again with regards to that. The Fox King (talk) 23:34, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

Protected

OK, I don't have time today to go into this issue, so I've protected the page for now. It's protected for a week, but will probably be unlocked sooner than that.

One thing I want to say right now, User:BananaClownMan, you are to stop naming another editor's good faith efforts as vandalism. Shambala108 ☎ 23:46, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

My apologies, but I was under the honest impression that it was vandalism.BananaClownMan ☎ 10:39, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

Regeneration hypocrisy debate

I have re-evaluated the hypocrisy on Ten's regeneration view by re-watching the scenes that emphasis my point of him being hypocritical in his statement of his successor not being him when he kept assuring Nine's friends that he was the same man. Specific points have been bolded.

Children in Need Special

• DOCTOR: "Rose, it's me. Honestly, it's me."
• ROSE: "You can't be."
• DOCTOR: "Then how could I remember this? Very first word I ever said to you. Trapped in that cellar. Surrounded by shop window dummies, such a long time ago. I took your hand. I said one word, just one word, I said... "Run"."

Uses Nine's experience to reassert Rose's trust in him, and talks in the second person as if it was him who experienced this.

The Christmas Invasion

• HARRIET: "I'm sorry. Who is this?"
• DOCTOR: "I'm the Doctor."
• ROSE: "He's the Doctor."
• HARRIET: "But what happened to my Doctor? Or is it a title that's just passed on?"
• DOCTOR: "I'm him. I'm literally him. Same man, new face. Well, new everything."
• HARRIET: "But you can't be."
• DOCTOR: "Harriet Jones, we were trapped in Downing Street and the one thing that scared you wasn't the aliens, it wasn't the war, it was the thought of your mother being on her own."
• HARRIET: "Oh, my God."

Specifically says that is the same man as Nine, just with a new face. Again, he uses Nine's experience to befriend Harriet.

In The End of Time, his exacted words are, "Even then, even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away, and I'm dead.".

He talk about a new man walking around with his name and experience, the same thing he did in his first episode. That is my case for the "Regeneration hypocrisy debate".BananaClownMan ☎ 11:09, June 28, 2015 (UTC)

You failed to take into account that when he made those claims to Rose and Harriet, he was in recovery of his regeneration and his thoughts were jumbled and confused compared to later. They could be chalked up to post-regenration trauma. He didn't mean he was the same person as 9, however, just the same man as his identity didn't change. He even later specified this completely in Utopia, claiming he was a different "man"(person) than 9 was, thus implying his thoughts after adjusting to his new life and body changed and were different. What he said to Rose and Harriet was true in a sense of being the same man, as his identity didn't change after 9's regeneration. But his personality and who he was personally changed almost completely, retaining only the Doctor's fundamental traits that all incarnations share; compassion, kindness, loyalty, eccentricity, and adventurousness. He and 9 were very different people, and his statements to Wilf later that 11 would be a different "man" were, in that sense, true and I've always believed when he said that he was talking personally, not in a sense that 11 wouldn't be the Doctor. He even said to 11, despite forgetting their meeting, that he was glad his future was good hands. HIS FUTURE, meaning he thought his successor was him overall, just as a new person, with a new personality. Therefore, I don't think this was necessarily hypocrisy. Given the different viewpoints possible if these statements are taken more literally, as a compromise I propose we re-write this part of his hypocrisy section in Personality so that it says something like "He also used the Ninth Doctor's experiences to assure Rose and Harriet that he was the same man as his predecessor, but didn't want his successor to do the same thing with regards to himself and his." The Fox King (talk) 16:14, July 2, 2015 (UTC)

And you have failed to take into account that by the time the Tenth Doctor encountered Harriet, his regeneration had stabilised (well, at least on a mental level) due to the tea, as he said, and I quote, "Superheated infusion of free radicals and tannin. Just the thing for healing the synapses".

Also, you compromise is neither hypocrisy on Ten's part, nor is that the message is he getting across to Wilf. He is telling Wilf that, even if he regenerates, he as the Tenth Doctor will be dead, much like how Joan felt about Ten in comparison to John; they are the same person in a sense, but their personalities are too different. It's like how Interference - Book One described the Third Doctor's regeneration as "the change began in earnest and the Third Doctor effectively ceased to exist." This is what Ten is saying to Wilf, when he regenerates, he's gone and someone completely different just walks away. That is were the hypocrisy comes in; After going around in The Christmas Invasion asserting that he is the same as Nine, he talks to Wilf in The End of Time by saying that the fact he and Eleven will be different is a bad thing.

The only real compromise would to be to remove the section, as it is causing more trouble than it is widening other's knowledge of the character of the Tenth Doctor.BananaClownMan ☎ 18:43, July 2, 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect, his dying condition was reversed, but he wasn't mentally stable as he was in later episodes yet, shown in his sheer lack of certainty about himself and the kind of person he was. And again, when Ten said he was the same man as nine, he mean't identity-wise as hes literally the Doctor. He didn't mean he was the same person, shown in the fact that, again, he wasn't sure what kind of man he was. When he said to Wilf "Some new man goes sauntering away, and I'm dead" that didn't necessarily mean 11 would not be him absolutely. They are the same man, as they are both he Doctor. When Ten said that he mean't everything the Doctor is in and as him will die, and someone new will walk away. That was true since 11 was a very different person. His personality was very different and as him the Doctor was therefore a different person despite having the same identity. As I've already said, Ten's statements on this issue can easily be viewed in multiple ways and have multiple interpreted meaning to viewers, such as you and I who each think it means something different, therefore I agree with you that we should remove that part from the personality section itself. Is that agreeable? The Fox King (talk) 22:04, July 2, 2015 (UTC)

Better Image

These images are definitely better than the current one They both face left Face is clear, no glasses which block face No background distractions – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Quicksilver999 (talk • contribs) .

Actually, they are not better, according to our infobox image rules at Tardis:Guide to images. Please note that infobox images for popular pages are not to be changed without community discussion — in fact, if you search the archives for this talk page, you can see the lengthy discussion where we decided on this page's current infobox image.

Just to note, your images had to be deleted because you failed to include a license when you uploaded them. Please take a look at Tardis:Image use policy for our rules on uploading images. Thanks, Shambala108 ☎ 15:03, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

Image Change

Would this be a more suitable image for this page? I don not agree with the current image because the glasses cover tens face and imply he always wore them. PS Someone can edit the shape if it is used

It is facing left Tens face is clear It suits his personality The glasses do not appear

I would like the feedback of other users to decide whether we should use this image.

File:Ten.jpg

Thank you, Quicksilver999

This image will not be used as it violates Tardis:Guide to images for infobox images. Shambala108 ☎ 14:14, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

And your image was again deleted for not having a license. Shambala108 ☎ 14:16, July 25, 2017 (UTC)