Forum:Timeline Clarification Questions

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Time Line Clarification Questions

OK, so I didn't pay too much attention to the time line during the early episodes of the new series, but I understand that when the Doctor returns Rose 12 months late, that is the reason for all of the "everything happens a year ahead of now" thinking.

So, is the date established during Rose or any other episode to confirm this theory (I'm sure it is and I missed it), or to show that the episode Rose didn't in fact occur a year BEFORE now, and that after the 12 month jump everything is back on track? And does the theory account for any of the missed bits of time that occur while the Doctor and Rose/Martha/Donna are jumping around the galaxy?

There are so many jumps in time that the Doctor and his companions make that I can't imagine having a solid understanding of the exact date of any "current" Earth-bound incident without some sort of visual evidence. --Raukodraug 18:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

According to the Missing Posters for Rose it says she's been missing since 6th March 2005. (So 12 months onwards is 2006, probably March in Aliens of London)

Each subsequent story reinforces this date, (for this information onwards I'm using the information and mostly the footnotes from AHistory Second Edition as it's been a while since I watched these) The Christmas Invasion is set after The Parting of the Ways (which itself doesn't take place much time after Boom Town, which takes place six months after Aliens of London). In School Reunion Sarah says that the Sycorax stuff happened 'last Christmas', placing School Reunion in 2007 (this date goes on to support time placement for other SJA eps). Love & Monsters states it takes place 2 years after Rose (further supporting the 2005 start date). Army of Ghosts takes place before The Runaway Bride (which is Christmas 2007), but still in 2007. This is important as in TW: Ghost Machine 1941 is stated as being 66 years ago (placing that story in 2007, and much of S1 of Torchwood in 2007). --Tangerineduel 13:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

From series 2 onward the year is in synch with our own. Series 1 is a bit confusing, but roughly most of it is set in 2005 as you shall soon find out in The End of Time at christmas. Series 2 - 2006 definite. Series 3 - 2007 through till 2008 during the year that never was. Series 4 - 2008. Reasons - research.

Just watched Fires of Pompeii again - Donna is complaining about why The Doctor can't save everyone if aliens are interfering - she then goes on to say "But you dsaved me - 2008, bla bla bla something about everyone else". So series 4 is defnitely set in sync with our time. What I think has happened was Series 1 and 2 and placed directly after each other - so then end of Series 1 happed in 2006 and all of series 2 happened in 2006. Same goes for Torchwood.Saxon 3 18:46, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Rose happened in 2005. Therefore Aliens of London, World War Three, Boom Town, The Parting of the Ways and The Christmas Invasion are in 2006. This means that School Reunion, Love & Monsters, Army of Ghosts, Doomsday and The Runaway Bride would kind of have to be in 2007, seeing as they can't all be crammed into that brief time period between Christmas and New Year. That means Smith and Jones, The Lazarus Experiment, Blink, The Sound of Drums, Last of the Time Lords and Voyage of the Damned are in 2008 and Partners in Crime, The Sontaran Stratagem, The Poison Sky, Turn Left, The Stolen Earth and Journey's End are in 2009, so Planet of the Dead is in 2010. As for Torchwood, Combat is set in January 2008, and seeing as Out of Time is before Christmas, the rest of the series would be in 2007, except for Captain Jack Harkness and End of Days, which are set after Combat. I think Series 2 would be set in late 2008 and it is confirmed that Series 3 is in late 2009. Series 1 of SJA is set before DWSeries4, probably in late 2008. Then Series 2 would be in late 2009 and Series 3, ocuring after Planet of the Dead, would be in 2010. Bigredrabbit 21:36, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

In the fires of pompeii Donna clearly states that The Doctor saved her and the whole world in 2008 (she said this because they were in ancient rome) which places all previous events in synch with ours. Otherwise series 2 and 3 are in the same year then.

Could you give a time reference (which point time wise during the episode this is said) I've had a quick look through the pre-title sequence and she doesn't appear to say anything about 2008 (this is the only time in the episode they say they're in Rome). Please also remember to sign your comments with four ~~~~ or by pushing the button above the text box that looks like a signature. --Tangerineduel 10:03, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Well she said it when they were walking under mount versuvius - just after they escaped from the sisterhodd of the sybilline. Saxon 3 13:19, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Just had a look for myself and it's somewhat inconclusive and vague. What Donna says as you mentioned partly above is "I'm history to you, you saved me in 2008, you saved us all.". However that doesn't negate the other references. All Donna says is that the Doctor saved her and "us all in 2008", which doesn't necessarily mean she's referring to her wedding day/The Runaway Bride.

The arguments against it are the dates and stories I've mentioned above. Donna says in Partners in Crime she'd been following things the Doctor was involved in, so she could be referring to the events of Voyage of the Damned. --Tangerineduel 15:11, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying that the runaway bride is in 2008 because the doctor didnt save everyone in the runaway bride. I'm saying that it is proof that series 4 is set in 2008. Which means Series 1 is set in 2005/2006, Series 2 in 2006/2007, Series 3 2007, and Series 4 2008. Planet of The Dead - 2009 and children of earth and the sarah jane adventures and the doctor who specials. Saxon 3 15:25, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Plus Donna wouldn't have any evidence to say that The Doctor was on the ship in Voyage of The damned - wich by the way is set directly after last of the time lords so that is set in christmas 2007 Saxon 3 15:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

You can't broadly state that each series is set during a particular time. You can state certain stories during those series could take place during certain time periods but there is still the evidence I've stated above.

2008 is when Martha Jones joins the Doctor. On Earth Martha is with the Doctor for about a week. The Master (Mr Saxon) gets elected in 2008. Voyage of the Damned as you have said does take place after Last of the Time Lords it also references the previous two Christmas specials, which means they exist and backs up the other dating, placing it in 2008.

NSA: Beautiful Chaos states specifically that Donna is from 2009 when she's travelling with the Doctor.

If hypothetically you were to place Voyage of the Damned in 2007 that would place The Runaway Bride in 2006 and The Christmas Invasion in 2005. --Tangerineduel 16:50, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not trying to state that all of the episodes are set in a certain time, sorry i should have made that clear. What i mean is that all the episodes set in preesent time are in synch with ours.

Which as I've said doesn't work. Voyage of the Damned is a easy example, it was broadcast in 2007, so by your reckoning that is when it's set, which as I've said would throw a lot of spanners into the works because of what it references on screen. --Tangerineduel 17:22, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, no canon source states that its set in sync with us. The only canon source that states when they are set is Doctor Who: The Time Traveller's Almanac which says its a year ahead. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit 05:53, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Here is my proof that At least series 3 to 4 is set in time with our own. The picture taken from The Waters of Mars depicts a wikipedia sort of thing that says, oh well just look at it...Saxon 3 21:01, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

That certainly does suggest that the Dalek invasion of Earth might have occured in 2008. However that image is from before the Doctor interfered with time. It can be argued that his interference didn't change anything (much), but the following obituary (after the Doctor rescues them etc) it isn't clear in relation to the Dalek invasion date. --Tangerineduel 12:19, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Changing something in the future doesn't affect the past. The invasion still would have happened in 2008. Plus the image is actually taken after Adelaide kills herself.Saxon 3 13:09, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes you're right (about the timing issues). Well I think further discussion prior to massive changing of the dates. Just so we can establish an actual timeline of everything and work out when and how it all occurs as this affects a lot of articles, so we need to go back through and establish which stories genuinely establish date and which are more fluid and other things like that. --Tangerineduel 13:55, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

I've just been on the Torchwood missions website, went to the mission folder and clicked on kiss kiss, bang bang - there's a a video captured by phone of the blowfish driving the car. That happens on the 16/01/08 - which places the events of Series 3 of Doctor who from 9/01/08 to the 16/01/08. Which means series 3 and four are in the same year. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang begins mere hours after The Doctor droppes Jack off. Saxon 3 14:29, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Not all the stories in Series 3 of Doctor Who take place in the relative "present". What you're talking about is: Smith and Jones, The Lazarus Experiment, bits of 42, pre-titles of Utopia, The Sound of Drums and Last of the Time Lords. --Tangerineduel 15:18, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

As for the christmas specials - The Next Doctor wouldn't count as it takes place in the 1800's. Now If Harold Saxon was around for 18 months, and the events of series three took place in january 2008, that would mean the Master had been around since May 2006. If Saxon gave the order to shhot down the star at christmas that would mean the runaway bride happened christmas 2006. The Voyage of the damned then takes place before the doctor actually meets martha. So where and how does the christmas invasion fit in to it?Saxon 3 15:44, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Not everything needs to be pushed backwards.

What's wrong with The Runaway Bride taking place...where it takes place in 2007? Saxon is still in a position of power then. The Christmas Invasion stays where it is.

The Doctor's wording is something like "at the most 18 months" is there proof around that he actually went back the full 18 months?

If you start to push back these fixed events we're going to hit a lot more problems dating wise. The Christmas Invasion still takes place in 2006. The Runaway Bride is 2007 and Voyage of the Damned is 2008.--Tangerineduel 16:26, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

It's just that when that reporter is in a meeting with Lucy Saxon she says "this is his first honest to god photo, 18 months ago, just after the downfall of Harriet Jones", which means he arrived in May 2006. Oh, I get it now. So Christmas Invasion - 2006, Runaway Bride - 2007, and Voyage of The Damned 2008?Saxon 3 16:32, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Just going back to the Adelaide Brooke issue for a moment I've had another look at Waters of Mars and at 30mins17sec into it, the Doctor and Adelaide are chatting, "Something that started 50 years ago...On the day the Earth was stolen and moved across the universe.". We're quite sure of the date, it's said in every other scene. 2059...so 50 years ago is 2009.

As we're not sure where these online news articles are being viewed, the dialogue seems to indicate more so (especially with the flashback) when it happened. --Tangerineduel 12:29, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he said 50 becuase he was rounding the number, when you write a script you make it easier for the actor to say if that makes sense, so instead of saying fifty one, fifty is quicker to say. There's more evidence to say 2008 than 2009, because of the thing donna said in pompeii (as stated somewhere above) Saxon 3 12:34, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Prove that the Doctor was rounding the number.

In TW: Ghost Machine they say 1941 was 66 years later neither are rounded. Fifty One is 1 more syllable longer than Fifty. And considering the tongue twisters in Midnight (and indeed any episode of Doctor Who) I don't think that's much of an argument (though you'd need to prove that it was a considering factor in the choice of the number 50, rather than 51 or whatever).

NSA: Beautiful Chaos still throws the 2008 assumption out the window, it specifically states that it occurs in 2009, and that Journey's End occurs within 6 weeks of it. --Tangerineduel 12:40, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

In "Blink" (2007), Cathy Nightingale's grandson states that, 'She died, 20 years ago', the tombstone says that she died in 1987. And in "The Fires of Pompeii" (2008), Donna argues with the Doctor, saying, 'You saved us all in 2008!'. Saxon 3 12:48, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Both statements prove that other people, humans specifically round numbers. Prove that the Doctor in this specific instance rounded his numbers. Obviously you can't, which is my point we have to take what he says at face value because once you start saying 'he rounded the number' (without proof) it means you can make anyone say anything by attaching a 'he was being vague' 'he was rounding up/down' etc.

To lift from my above comment: What Donna says is "I'm history to you, you saved me in 2008, you saved us all.". That doesn't negate anything. All Donna says is that the Doctor saved her and "us all in 2008", which doesn't necessarily mean she's referring to her wedding day/The Runaway Bride. --Tangerineduel 12:57, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

She's not referring to her wedding day anyway, she is reffering to the events of Partners in Crime. Also Adelaide's birthday is 12th may 1999, like for instance Michael Jackson's birthday - he was born in 1958 but died in 2009 he was 50, if that makes any sense. Saxon 3 13:07, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Exactly we don't know so we have to work with the information the characters provide. As for my statement/quote as I said I lifted it from an above post. --Tangerineduel 13:14, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

There are 2 statements/quotes in Waters of Mars that tell us two different things. We must determine which one is right. "I'm history to you, you saved me in 2008, you saved us all." is stated by Donna she is talking about Partners in crime. In "Blink" (2007), Cathy Nightingale's grandson states that, 'She died, 20 years ago', the tombstone says that she died in 1987. Both statements in the waters of mars (news article and what the doctor said) were written by R.T.D so you are saying that he can't keep time. The news article is more likely to be right since it did take place on Earth, and since the doctor doesn't live on Earth he can't be expected to keep time on earth.Saxon 3 13:33, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Okay. But I'm not saying anything of the sort, the online news articles aren't presented in any way we can attribute where they were from or who was viewing them. While what is said by the characters...is what is said by them.

So burden of evidence time. As I've said Beautiful Chaos along with a whole bunch of other stories places the year that the Earth was stolen in 2009. --Tangerineduel 13:47, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

What month does it take place in, it could be that the stolen earth takes place in? It's possible that The stolen earth took place in december 2008 (but early december, because there arent any christmas decorations up) and (six weeks is roughly 1 monthand 1 week.) Beautiful Chaos takes place in January 2009.Saxon 3 13:53, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Beautiful Chaos takes place from the 15th - 18th of May 2009. It's states it into the infobox in fact. --Tangerineduel 12:49, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, getting tired of this: S1 - Rose - 2005 S1 - Aliens of London until The Christmas Invasion - 2006 Series 2 and The Runaway Bride - 2007 Series 3 and Voyage of the Damned - 2008 Series 4 - 2009 The specials have the potential to be set within the last half of 2009, allowing the timeline to catch up, so The End of Time could be xmas 2009 or 10 at the moment. Donna's '2008' slip could be her memory or jumping to the last time he saved the world without her that she knows of - the Titanic (which he could have easily filled her in on). The '2008 Dalek invasion of Earth' article in Waters of mars is simply wrong and RTD's dialogue indicates Series 4 took place in 2009. Taccer 07 22:24, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

All the evidence points towards the one-year ahead theory being correct, but I'm just worried about the upcoming Matt Smith series. It's starting a new slate, so I think the one-year ahead rule will be abolished and it's contempory episodes will be set in 2010. Trying to think of a solution, I realised there isn't one and everything is a year ahead, until the 2009 Specials. Perhaps without realising it, the BBC has given us an easy loophone out of it for the Smith series. The Christmas special in Series 4 isn't set contempory, allowing the 2009 Specials and Series 4 to be set in 2009. Though this will make 2009 a crowded year, I think the timeline for 2009 should go a bit like this: Torchwood Series 2 Partners in Crime The Sontaran Stratagem The Poison Sky The bit at the end of The Doctor's Daughter The middle bit in Turn Left The Stolen Earth Journey's End SJA Series 2 Planet of the Dead From Raxacoricfallapatorius with Love Children of Earth SJA Series 3 The End of Time Leaving 2010 completely clean of the Tennant series and ready for the Smith one, except for the bit at the end of Children of Earth.I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit 06:30, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

I think the best thing it to just wait and see what happens with the Eleventh Doctor and next year. --Tangerineduel 14:41, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Why don't we just wait for the episodes to air and work from there as opposed to guesswork?-Excalibur-117 13:02, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. They might have Series 5 be set in 2010 but before The End of Time or have Series 5 and 6 both in 2011. Who knows? One complication for Bigredrabbit's timeline is that Beautiful Chaos is May 2009, Journey's End is after Beautiful Chaos, and Planet of the Dead is an Easter after the planets have been stolen, meaning Easter 2010 at earliest. Of course, it seems the show people have a harder time remembering the year forward because they're not as fannish as we fans, hence the "2008 Dalek Invasion" mistake. As for Blink, the Martha Jones myspace page says that Martha and the Doctor time travelled to 2007, which is indeed when the main part of the episode takes place, and Martha wonders if they keep going from 2008 to 2007 because that's when Rose was from. -- Noneofyourbusiness 05:14, December 1, 2009 (UTC)