Howling:Oh dear we are in trouble: Difference between revisions

Howling:Oh dear we are in trouble (view source)

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AlexMcpherson

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 Well, Trenzalore only mattered to the GI because that WAS where the Doctor's tomb was found. If the Doctor didn't die at Trenzalore, and we assume that eventually he will die, them he might die somewhere else. And that is where the GI would have forced the Doctor to go, in order to get into his tomb, to interfere with his timestream, and inspire Clara to follow, and become the Impossible Girl. [[User:Phil Stone|Phil Stone]] [[User talk:Phil Stone|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:30, March 18, 2014 (UTC)
+:Think about the graves... all of those graves. for who? there doesn't appear to have been enough people for such a large battlefield grave. He was buried in his TARDIS... but look at the sequence of events. Clara was there to do what she does best: save the Doctor. She had been sent away in the TARDIS, so say she didn't return... the TARDIS was supposed to return without her, but Clara being clara, that wasn't going to happen. to me, those events were always going that way. Also... the grave/etcetera doesn't mean that that will be where he died. look at soldiers in modern armies who die - are they buried on the fields of battle, or in their 'home country'/other suitable descriptor? And what did Trenzalore become to him over those hundreds of years? A home. Trenzalore is not just his burial place, it is a new home to him. One he would visit, and eventually his resting place.
+:So he still died, still was buried in the TARDIS on Trenzalore, along with everyone whom had a gravestone there who numbered far more than villagers we saw in the special, he just maybe didn't die on Trenzalore, and not as the Eleventh/Twelfth/Whatever. So since that is, (in my head canon btw) part of what they found when they visited the grave in the Name of the Doctor, the GI still went back 'ripping apart' the Doctor... and Clara still went back fixing the damage done by the GI.
+:But as Clara stated... she saw the twelve faces of the Doctor upto him, but that doesn't mean the GI isn't there in his future, trying to make a mess of his ''entire'' life. Also, she doesn't necessarily need to remember seeing those that came after, so she could have seen all of his faces, but only remembered the faces of those who came before Eleven... so there could be a version of herself that she meets with Capaldi! "Hi Me," "What?" "Oh, I'm you when you jumped into his time stream, you look like you don't remember this stuff..." "W?ait, now I remember, why didn't I remember?" And the doctor inserts, "oh its like how when I've met other versions of myself, the youngest versions usually end up with the memories blocked except for when the intermediate versions are involved, even not even then experiencing it without remembering, and only the oldest version leaves those times able to remember. My previous incarnation that you first met of me left a certain incident knowing that I, he, ''hadn't'' killed the time lords, but the younger versions you also met for that left thinking, we, had killed them, because that's what we remember of the timeline, despite that never occuring."
+:This is the sequence of consequences... Second set below, causes the War Doctor to change his plan from destruction. Gallifrey is hidden (and not destroyed by the Moment). Also, the TARDIS is destroyed in a moment of time that she isolated as best as she could (she being the TARDIS), this creates cracks in time that echo backward and forward... One of those cracks is then used by the Timelords to get a distress call to the Doctor. The FEar of their return because of this being what propels people to try to destroy the TARDIS, to prevent the Doctor getting to that point. The attempt to prevent becoming the cause paradox.
+:Second set. Clara meets the Doctor, and gets a habit of saving him. this leads her to jumping into his time stream when the Great Intelligence uses it to try to destroy the Doctor in every moment in time, However doing so she meets him in two forms that give him the push to gaining herself as a companion in the first place. With this habit set, she also manages to save an earlier versions as well as his current, from himself, (the hiding instead of destruction). She then, on trenzalore, saves him by inspiring the other time lords, like he did them, into saving the Doctor by gifting a new regeneration cycle.
+:Think about it through... all the way through. The Cracks in time were because the TARDIS was destroyed and some made it through after the universe was rebooted. the TARDIS was destroyed because one such crack on Trenzalore was used by the Time Lords to ask the question. The Question was asked  by the Time Lords. So the Time Lords couldn't have been destroyed in an original timeline... if they had been, those who caused the TARDIS to be destroyed wouldn't have done so for that reason (hinted at as being the Silence/part of the papal mainframe). Those being good guys, woulnd't have tried that. The TARDIS wouldn't have been destroyed, and it wouldn't also be the resting place of him on trenzalore... so Clara couldn't enter his timestream ,s o he wouldn't have met all the incarnations of her, including Dalek-Oswin or Victorian-Clara, who wouldn't have then led him on a chase through time for her that lead to original Clara Oswald which then wouldn't have led to him encountering the Great Intelligence at that point, which then woudln't have led to whatever lead to the GI finding and using that time portal (wherever it ended up if not trenzalore)... also without the cracks, Amy would just be Amelia, the scottish girl in the south of england, a girl who lived in that house with a protective mum and dad and kept her accent because she's so scottish, who's shed he destroyed when he and the TARDIS landed after becoming the Eleventh. So there wouldn't have been Amy Pond on the TARDIS on her wedding night, there'd be no Melody Pond/Williams who, conceived when on the TARDIS, would be effectively Human-plus-Timelord, therefore no River Song, therefore no 'psycho' to train and fake his death with from season 6.... which is already covered under the 'wouldn't have happened' since no call meant no silence going back blabla...
+anyway in summary...
+it's all connected... so I'd say that his gaining regenerations was NOT a 'change the time line' moment, since it's actually very within the likely results of those situations. and I very much see the TARDIS as having seen it, and knowing that Clara needed to be there to save the Doctor, hence shielding her while returning (when she didn't even try with Captain Jack in Utopia!) [[User:AlexMcpherson|AlexMcpherson]] [[User talk:AlexMcpherson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:39, August 9, 2014 (UTC)