Talk:Meta-Crisis Doctor

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Blue suit - Behind the Scenes?

Why is this in the Behind the Scenes section?

The Doctor occasionally wore his blue suit even after the Meta-Crisis Doctor left the TARDIS with it, revealing that the Doctor either replaced it or owned more than one. (TV: Music of the Spheres, Dreamland, The Waters of Mars)

This is an in-universe statement. Unless there's something I'm missing here, this should be in a separate section. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 02:56, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Regeneration

so according to " The Mirror," Steven Moffat is counting the meta-crisis tenth doctor as a regeneration. This is kind of important since it puts to bed the long debate over whether or not Meta 10 used up a regeneration. Plus, since the War Doctor exists, that would bring us to 12 regenerations (8 classic + War + 9 + 10 + M10 + 11). Shouldn't it be added to the page somewhere? Source link: [[1]] Kremlin16 ☎ 07:37, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Please see Thread:145998 for how we're dealing with the different incarnation numbers, and please see Tardis:Valid sources for why anything Moffat says offscreen cannot be put on in-universe pages. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎ 14:17, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

So, basically, until meta 10 is confirmed to have counted on screen, and the Doctor mentions he used up all his regenerations on screen, this kind of thing won't be added? I just want to make sure I understand this. Kremlin16 ☎ 21:19, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Sort

Should this page be sorted as Doctor, Meta-Crisis Tenth instead of its current name? It doesn't fit in with the rest of the Doctors. guyus24 05:37, January 17, 2016 (UTC)

Was wondering how could mention that there was a lesser version of a meta-crisis with The Doctor during his 1st incarnation when his energies were drained and transferred into the Human[oid] Jano, which permanently altered him (in The Savages). Just an oldster's odd observation.174.64.6.27^{talk to me} 07:08, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Is there in-universe proof that Jano was a meta-crisis? Certainly, the term was not used in The Savages. In addition, there are significant differences: Jano was an existing individual, he was not created as the result of meta-crisis. Also, depending on how close Jano's people were to humans, Jano was not supposed to survive being a meta-crisis. Note that Steven Taylor could successfully breed with the inhabitants of the planet, meaning that biology was reasonably similar. Amorkuz ☎ 15:32, September 10, 2017 (UTC)

Tentoo

I know much discussion has been had to reach the name for this incarnation that the wiki uses, but the social media accounts have now called him "Tentoo" – Is this an official acknowledgement and recognition for this name? (Before you protest "it's not in-universe" or to that effect, remember that the same is true of pretty much every variation on The Nth Doctor with only The Eleventh Doctor ever referring to themselves as such iirc.)

First of all, it is not the case that Nth Doctor is not in-universe. Tardis:Doctors provides relevant references for this naming scheme from stories.

Secondly, anonymous "social media accounts" and "official confirmation" are largely antithetical to each other. Notwithstanding, unspecified social media accounts are not a valid source and should be disregarded.

Finally, even if the Doctor, in-universe, uses "time-wimey" to describe Blinovitch Limitation Effect, we are not going to rename it thusly. This is an online encyclopedia of Doctor Who. We are not going to use niche jargons instead of proper English. We are going to be very grown-up and use words like "equidistant" and "meta-crisis". However, if RTD and Ten(nant) himself both start rooting for an alternative name, I will be prepared to return to this question. Amorkuz ☎ 16:08, April 26, 2018 (UTC)

Conjecture

I have not yet been able to listen to The Siege of Big Ben (I'll get it sometime next week) but the Big Finish page refers to this character as the Meta-Crisis Doctor. Does this mean that the title is conjectural no more? --Borisashton ☎ 12:33, June 30, 2018 (UTC)

First of all, a very astute observation. Unfortunately, he is not called that in the story though "meta-crisis" is used to explain his condition (several times). Jackie Tyler calls him "the Doctor" most of the time. Nevertheless, it is indeed the case that a holder and executor of a BBC license calls him "Meta-Crisis Doctor" off-universe. While the description of the {{conjecture}} requiring to use it for articles "whose subjects' names do not actually appear within a valid narrative" still applies, I think it is an important step. Were the name Meta-Crisis Doctor used in the credits, it would have been enough. For now, we just need to wait till the meta-crisis mass becomes critical. Amorkuz ☎ 21:48, July 5, 2018 (UTC)

Just for the record although yet again the evidence isn't in the narrative, this Doctor was referred to as "The Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor" in a recently uploaded video to the official Doctor Who YouTube channel. --Borisashton ☎ 18:40, August 12, 2018 (UTC)

The alias used in the new Target Storybook short story (Corin) is only relevant to said story. As stated above, the alias is not used in Big Finish nor on any official site. The author has made clear that it is a different timeline than either of the Big Finish Short Trips.--ibelieveinher ☎ 19:45, October 24, 2019 (UTC)

Hi I've left a message on your talk page but please note that your first statement above is incorrect with regard to how we write articles on this wiki. Thanks Shambala108 ☎ 23:50, October 24, 2019 (UTC)

The term Meta-Crisis Doctor is the common factor throughout all mediums and to refer to him as Corin in relation to anything but the short story is incorrect. The base neutral "Meta-Crisis Doctor" should therefore be the term/name used when referring to the character in any common dialogue. If we start using one specific name for all characters across any medium then we may as well only call The Doctor, Theta.ibelieveinher ☎ 00:50, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

The article has been protected for now due to vandalism by two IP users. Shambala108 ☎ 01:18, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

First we should establish whether TtotT takes place before or after the Big Finish Short Trips. If it takes place after then "the Doctor" and "Meta-Crisis Doctor" should be the terms used to refer to this individual in reference to the BF stories within the biography section. As his most recent name, "Corin" should be used for all other sections. --Borisashton ☎ 01:21, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

The author has said that it takes place in a separate timeline than Big Finish. In same way that the First Doctor and Susan have conflicting adventures, one is not related to the other and therefor one name cannot be used as standard.- ibelieveinher ☎ 01:28, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

Can you provide evidence of this intent and a specific example of this First Doctor precedent? --Borisashton ☎ 01:35, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

In Susan's intro alone, she as 2 separate names listed after "According to some sources". This is the format we should follow for the Meta-Crisis Doctor. He only goes by that name in one spin-off and the two appearances (big finish/target storybook) are unrelated. We know "Doctor Who" doesn't subscribe to continuity, so to try and ascribe continuity to it would be a disservice. He goes by The Doctor from day one in the Big Finish Short Trips but the Target Short Stories have him choosing a new name before leaving Norway. "The Meta-Crisis Doctor" is the only neutral and canonical term/name used across all media. - ibelieveinher ☎ 01:51, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

But the Susan example is an example of conflicting sources. If TTotT takes place after the BF stuff I see no contradiction. There is precedent here with Jack Harkness. For the early life sections of his biography he is referred to as Javic and then later as Jack. His most used and most recent alias is the one used for most of the page. --Borisashton ☎ 01:59, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

The Big Finish Audios and the Target Storybook 'are' conflicting sources. They even specifically diverge in regards to the topic of conversation. And to canonize one over the other would be taking sides and the point of this site is to remain neutral. Meta-Crisis Doctor is how we do so. --Ibelieveinher ☎ 02:03, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

How do they conflict, exactly. Could you provide details? --Borisashton ☎ 02:06, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

Big Finish establishes the fact that the Meta-Crisis Doctor goes by the name, "Doctor" within the first 5 minutes of The Siege of Big Ben. The director of Unit also calls him The Doctor before the end of story as well. They are well into living their lives in Pete's World. In the follow up, Flight Into Hull!, Jackie says flat out that he is "still the Doctor!" In TtotT, it says he picks his new name only days after arriving on Bad Wolf Bay and is then never once referred to as The Doctor. They also have different careers in both; In the audios he and Rose both work for Unit and live in London and in TtotT they are a Doctor and teacher respectively living on the south coast.--Ibelieveinher ☎ 02:19, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

I hardly think these are irreconcilable. We can simply stucture the page as: "days after arriving in Pete's World, Rose confronted the Meta-Crisis Doctor about him using the name the Doctor. He then chose the name "Corin" for himself, and became a doctor, while Rose went on being a teacher. (PROSE: The Turning of the Tide) Year laters, "Corin" once again called himself "the Doctor", and worked for UNIT (AUDIO: The Siege of Big Ben, Flight Into Hull!)" etc etc.

I do agree (from the info we gathered) that we need to take care where in the article we refer to him as "Corin" and when we refer to him as "the Doctor". Does anyone disagree with the compromise I proposed above (which would of course be further developed if put on the page)? OncomingStorm12th ☎ 02:31, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

The disagreement is with the fact that in a specific tweet from the author, she states that she decided to go a different direction from Big Finish, therefore making her story an AU and not related to Big Finish in anyway. They are two separate verses. Someone else posted a link to the author's tweet in the section below. -Tentooisthedoctor

Metacrisis/Tentoo

The Meta-crisis page is completely inaccurate and should not have been changed to meet the views of one writer's headcannon since she did not write the actual show. The head writer Russell T. Davies did not give the metacrisis Doctor a name. He is still THE DOCTOR (meta-crisis or Tentoo) and should remain as such until Russell Himself comes out and says otherwise. Also trying to change the name back to Tentoo is not vandalism.

Also on the author's Twitter page she specifically states that while she enjoyed the Big Finish she chose to go a different direction with her story therefore not staying with the previous storylines but rather her own personal ideas of what would have happened.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 2605:6000:8C4D:5500:F803:535:2996:7724 (talk).

I suggest you read Tardis:In-universe perspective and Tardis:Neutral point of view to understand this wiki's way of handling all stories. And please note that wikis on FANDOM are written by and for fans, we don't have to follow everything the writers say or do. We have our own definition of what is a valid source and what isn't. Shambala108 ☎ 01:46, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

Also, could you please provide a link to this so-said tweet? Going through her tweets from today and yesterday, I can find no mention of either Big Finish or the Meta-Crisis Doctor/Corin. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 01:48, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

The tweet was in response to a question: "Are you tying into what they did with the Big Finish short stories at all? Or taking a different path?" Her response was as follows: "I LOVED the Big Finish shorts but I have gone a different way. xxxxx" Author's Tweet --Gingergallifreyan125 ☎ 02:00, October 25, 2019 (UTC)

With all respect, I think that the anonymous user read too much into her tweet. The most straight-foward (and most likely) interpretation for her answer ("different way") means just that: her story isn't continuity-linked with the two BF Short Trips. But then again, neither are any of the stories in this anthology. That's not the point of the stories. Most likely, she just meant that there wasn't any intention on this story being written to tie-in with these stories - but jumping from this to "this story and the two Short Trips take place in alternate realities" is a very big stretch. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 02:35, October 25, 2019 (UTC)