Talk:John Hurt (in-universe)

This page should be merged.

It should be relocated at Talk:John Hurt (Greeks Bearing Gifts) because this page is named with a typo
Talk about it here or check the revision history for additional comments.

Delete

Bearing in mind that this is an encyclopaedia containing everything and everyone involved in the DWU, I can understand the need to cover this version of John Hurt. This reference enough is evidence that there's a John Hurt in the DWU, therefore we should cover it. If we delete this, then we can surely have a clear out of a few Tom Bakers that we have lying around.

To be clear, that was sarcasm. This page has every right to be here. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 21:23, January 29, 2017 (UTC)

Valid reason. --DCLM ☎ 21:41, January 29, 2017 (UTC)

Maybe the deletion request you placed should be removed. We don't want admins cleaning it up. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 00:07, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

But hold on. The "Tom Bakers" we have pages for (as far as I'm aware of) actually appeared on a story. From the content of this page, John Hurt was only referenced on Greek Bearing Gifts. I don't see the point of making pages for real-world DW-related actors if they are only mentioned. I do think this could (and should) be only a BtS note on John Hurt (as it was before). OncomingStorm12th ☎ 00:19, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

By that reasoning, why does Akhaten have the category "Planets visited by the First Doctor". That was only a line in an episode, whereas we actually witness the Eleventh Doctor's visit so he earns his category... the Doctor could simply have been lying... TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 00:47, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

Because there is no such thing as a "real world" Akhaten sentient planet-like object. If there was, this would be a different matter. As for the Doctor "could simply have been lying". Yes, he totally could. But that would be speculation, which is not up to us. Anyway, probably an admin could settle this matter down better than us. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 00:58, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

And to those people who don't completely know how this Wiki works? In the "notes" on Greek Bearing Gifts, we link "John Hurt" (from the DWU) to "John Hurt" (from our universe)? Seems a bit silly. I can see where you're coming from regarding "it's just a reference" but this Wiki is built upon "he said, she said". You do realise that the Brothers Grimm has been "referenced" numerous times in Doctor Who throughout its mediums... but they themselves, to my knowledge, have never made an appearance. So why do they have their own page? If you delete this page, it's hypocritical not to delete "Brothers Grimm" and others like it, built on pure mentions and speculations by characters. Don't misinterpret me, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm stating that this is an encyclopaedia. References either get their own pages or they don't. There's no "well this can go in, but this can't". TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 01:08, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

For a little historical context, this was initially covered at John Hurt, before he became involved with the DWU. At that point, it no longer made sense to cover real-world John Hurt (who's now played an incarnation of the Doctor) in a BTS section. So we flipped it around, as we sometimes do. I would recommend that everyone here read Talk:John Hurt. Reasoning is given there for why we originally made that decision. Since then, it should be noted, I think we've made more pages on the DWU versions of people with real world pages.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 01:15, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

My final opinion on this is that it's evident that John Hurt exists as two people. We should celebrate our unique coverage of content on this Wiki. When someone gets an in-universe mention, I'd rather be linked up to the DWU version of that person, with a "do you mean" at the top, leading me to the real person and alternate versions. I think it provides true coverage. Furthermore, the categories tell me that the person also exists in real-life. As you said, it's been done before. What makes this difference? Maybe since John Hurt has appeared in Doctor Who, doesn't that compromise the lack of a DWU page? Anyway, I'm all for this page. Feel free to reach whichever decision you feel is best. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 01:19, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

Let's reach a decision on this, please.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 20:29, March 4, 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't understand. It seems that the talk at John Hurt says this page should be deleted. To quote from CzechOut: "Therefore, to ensure that our use of dab terms remains consistent, fictional references of real people go on the "real world" page. And, as a bonus, this allows us to discuss the fictional appearance using "normal" English, rather than the sorta "fictional, this-all-happened-in-the-past-and-we-know-about-it-because-we-live-at-the-end-of-the-universe English" our in-universe perspective requires us to use." Am I misreading anything? I agree that the situation with actors appearing in DWU is more subtle. After all, the main problem is that DWU can, in principle, give a real person an alternative history. But this reference line does not state anything that would be false of the real Hurt. Amorkuz ☎ 22:01, March 27, 2017 (UTC)

With a recent revision to Tardis:Disambiguation#Primary topics, this is no longer an issue - in-universe versions of real world actors who have appeared in Doctor Who receive the dab, as a matter of sheer logic, somebody searching for Tom Baker would most likely want the actor, not the character.

Epsilon 📯 📂

20:00, 6 February 2021 (UTC)