Howling:Cybermen upgraded

The Howling → Cybermen upgraded

There be spoilers about un-released stories here.
Run back to the forums if you're scared.

I was just wondering about the cybus cybermen. Steven Moffat seeems to be content to make a new era of doctor who. Which is fine absolutely, new companions new Daleks [a real point about it being new Daleks] seemingly a new timeline to play with. So here is my question do you think we are gonna get a new type of cybermen. From what I have heard from the people I know personally the cybusmen are not popular. I personally didn't mind them but alot of people do think that they give the cybermen a bad name becaues they are so weak compared to the other baddies. Some have suggested the original cybermen will return. Personally I would love to see this, again not that I hate the cybusmen but the originals were cooler and more badass. I don't think though that they will do this I dont know why but I just can't see the cybusmen being totally written out of the new who. I think instead the cybusmen might just upgrade themselves into more powerful form. Maybe they will take something leftover from the original cybermen and mix into themselves. Though I suppose thats just victory of the daleks again, LOL they will probably need a testimony. Still let me know what you think, do you think we will get new uprgraded cybusmen.or the much cooler classic cybermen back. Either way I think it will be the last we see of RTD type cybusmen, something will happen I wager that will just make them different to give Moffat a new slate. User:Winehousefan, 15:48, June 8, 2010 [UTC

I reckon we'll get the old cybermen back by the end of this season, but not before the cybusmen are completely destroyed. I mean, there are only so many times the cybusmen can brake through to our world without it getting boring, like the daleks keep escaping the time war over and over (I'm surprised there were any daleks who died in the time war considering the number who escaped!) Lu-igi board

Yeah I know what you mean all these millions of Daleks got free from the war but only two time lords why do the daleks always survive but the time lords dont. I agree the cybusmen breaking through into our world is definetly going to end this season, like moffat ended the time war thing for the daleks, hopefully after victory of the daleks the daleks will just rebuild and it will be like the pre rememberance days when they are not wiped out. Though as I said before I am not sure if it will be the cybusmen getting blown up or changed and permantly staying in our universe so Moffat dosent have to keep referencing past stories. Winehousefan, 17:20 June 8, [UTC]

In the Adventure Games, there appears to be a new kind of Cyberman without the C-Logo on the chest. Taht could be it. --the twelfth doctor 17:20, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible the two types of Cyberman meet and form a new race of Cybermen?--Samoth 18:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC

moffat needs to bring back the original cybermen, personaly i hate the cybusmen and much prefer the originals, i think that they are way more scary( i would much rather be chased by a cybusman than a mondasian cyberman),and there back story is alot better. something needs to be done they were one of the worst parts of the RTD era. the cracks are the best way to do this, which as it looks moffat is doing, we have the old pure dalek race back give us the classic Cybermen, maybe even mondas 79.64.149.226 22:12, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the mondasian cybermens backstory was way better than the cybusmen, the cybermen did have some genuinly frightining moments in doctor who "you shall be like us" yeeeesh that creeped me out. The only thing is the cybusmens backstory is obviously more familiar to new viewers. Though having had time to think I have noticied that steven moffat does seem to want to put an end to the seperation between new and old who. He has not only said this in interviews but if you just watch his stories, more reference to old who than many RTD stories. First story image of all ten doctors. Pictures of the first doctor a couple of times in other episodes and one of the second doctor, the original Daleks come back. So he might actually bring the cybermen back. I am actually beginning to change my mind about them coming back now I think there is a good chance that even if they are not back in the final they may still come back another way in Moffats attempts to link old and new who. As has been pointed out in the new game one dosent have the C on his chest and looks different could be an old cyberman, though it would be wierd to bring them back in a game first. Winehousefan, 23:44, June 8, 2010 [UTC]

Actually, the backstory for the original Cybermen wasn't that great, mainly because every time Kit Pedler wrote a story he completely rewrote their history (the Daleks only got this once, in Genesis), and he seemed to be unable to resist throwing in more very bad astrophysics every time. Look at how much work David Banks had to put in to try to create a consistent history in REF: Doctor Who: Cybermen, or just look at the chart.

And, going along with all this inconsistency, sometimes they were much scarier than the Cybusmen, but sometimes they were pretty pathetic. A good writer could write a great, scary story with either Cybermen, and a bad writer couldn't do it with either one.

All that being said, I still agree that I'd like to see the end of the Cybusmen, just because the whole conceit of finding yet another way to bring them back after they'd been wiped out completely is as annoying for them as it was for the RTDaleks.

The obvious way to do that is to not wipe out the last batch of Cybusmen, but instead exile them. While traveling around, they discover a Telos-style tomb, reactivate the classic Cybermen, and share their technology. Each race is technologically superior to the other in some ways, so why not take the best of both? No more easily-disabled chip to block emotions like the Cybusmen; no more death by a sprinkling of gold dust like (some of) the classics; they can be really loud and imposing while marching, but they can also sneak around quietly when they're not trying to intimidate; etc. Even if the Cybusmen and tomb Cybermen don't upgrade themselves, and instead just use the new technology only for new conversions, the originals of both types would soon be a vanishingly small minority within the overall Cybermen race. --Falcotron 23:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

i do agree that the finding of a tomb is the best way to go in bringing the cybermen back. when i think about it since the series started up again with the RTD era, we have seen too much of enemies that were considered dead coming back through the void or falling through time and rebuilding their civilization, its starting to become old news. if the cracks dont erase tyhe cybusmen then they should find a cybertomb and either upgrade each other or be destroyed in a cyberwar. Moffat prbably has thought of al of these, i think we can trust him to do the right thing. but wither way a total redesign of the current cybusmen is needed 217.23.232.194 08:07, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

I was more talking about spare parts than what we see in the original series. But I totally agree that would be great to have the cybusmen find some telosian cybermen. the two should join and that would be that a new super breed of cybermen better than anything we've seen before. That would also in my opinion help they cybusmen feel more like cybermen. Alot of people I know were going on about how come it is just these other universe cybermen they are not the real cybermen. Its not like they even come from a parralel mondas, though earth is mondas's twin planet. This though would provide a better link between them and we would have new cybermen for a new doctor. Winehousefan: 09:44, June 9 2010 [UTC]

Honestly, for me, it's not all that important whether they come from a parallel universe, a twin planet, or something entirely new. What's wrong with the Cybusmen is that they keep getting completely wiped out and then brought back--just like the RTDaleks. And the reason for this is that they don't have space travel; they're stuck on Earth (parallel or otherwise), so it's hard to justify any resolution to any story short of total extermination. --Falcotron 09:39, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Actually come to think of it most of the villains in the RTD era were dead and then came back. Daleks obviously destroyed in the time war cybusmen kept coming into our world even the master first he was thought dead then he survived then killed by lucy then ressurected. Moffat is obviously going to rectify this. As far as I know thats what victory of the daleks was about. The daleks were back they have rebuilt which means it can be like the old who where they have a new skaro. I hope Moffat dosen't kill off these new pure daleks again. Moff is obviously gonna do this with the cybermen, though we can speculate I guess we will just have to wait and see if it is with the cybusmen or the original cybermen. He will probably do it with the master too when he feels the time is right and later davros. You are 100% right about the cybusmen being stuck on the earth. Even if moffat does kill them off again he does need to have them find some way to travel in space so that not only can more stories be done with them but so that they don't need to be killed off completely in the future. Even if they were invading earth but from another world then they still wouldn't have to die completly. Has anybody here seen Xena Warrior Princess that made the classic mistake of killing off the main villain every time. Callisto kept dieing and through some way she kept coming back until eventually they just killed her off for good. Hopefully Moff has learnt from this as well as RTD that you cant just keep doing that. Winehousefan: 11:10,June 9, 2010, [UTC]

the thing is whith the whoniverse anything that the writers can imagine is possible, you can totally kill someone off and then bring them back aslong as you can explain it. The thing is like you say this kept happening with the cybusmen, like with the daleks the 9th doctor final was a surprise because it was like 'what!! they arnt dead' but after the daleks were in most of the season finals in the RTD era by the end it was like look its the daleks again' it didnt surprise anybody.

this has happend with the cybusmen, something needs to be done to either get rid of them, or like we have sed change them,because they have no character behind them, they come from nowhere (literaly) and then get sent back. the old cybermen had a for lack of a better word personality about about them, they came from somewhere, they had a place in the universe so to speak.

like i said though moffat is an amazin writier as we have seen, he will make a change to them in some way, they are in the fianl for a reason maybe it is for that change 217.23.232.194 11:09, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think Moffat will kill the Daleks off again. He's pretty well established that there's a bunch of Daleks out there in the universe now; the Doctor can prevent them from rebuilding Skaro this year, and stop their Empire from conquering some alien race next year, whatever, but he'll never wipe them out again. As the anon-IP poster says, it's not that you _can't_ keep bringing them back, it's that you can't keep people interested if you do....

As for Xena, that was supposed to be an over-the-top ridiculous show. Robert Tapert (the creator) was always surprised that people took it seriously enough to ask continuity questions and complaining about anachronisms in a show where Homer and Caesar existed at the same time and Aphrodite talked like a surfer girl. Bringing Callisto back and making her a goddess, a demon, and I can't remember what else actually worked, at least the first few times. (I'll admit, I stopped watching the show well before it ended.) But Doctor Who is not Xena. --Falcotron 12:21, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

You didn't miss much the end of xena wasn't very good. But back to doctor who and the cybermen. I am not sure Moffat will neccessarrly bring them back in the final because there is so much going on in the final already. Perhaps the final will just reintroduce the cybusmen and have them escape. Then next season they will get a major upgrade and if moff wants to he can merge them with the old cybermen or just kil the cybusmen off for the original to return whatever he feels is right. Winehousefan: 13:50, June 9 2010, [UTC]

Well I think that the cybusmen being upgraded at the very least is definetly going to happen as they have been seen in spaceships in the trailer so even if there are not the original cybermen then the cybusmen could have conquered space travel at last. Winehousefan, 10:25, June 13, 2010, [UTC]

Yeah, when I heard River say "Cyberships", that brought a huge smile to my face. Whether it means classic Cybermen or somehow-upgraded Cybusmen, the whole problem is gone with them being stuck on a planet they can't share with humanity so they have to be completely destroyed every season and then ever-more-improbably brought back. Thank you, Moff! --Falcotron 10:54, June 13, 2010 (UTC)