Talk:Vincent and the Doctor (TV story)

Arcadia and Trojan Gardens

The topos of "Arcadia" is linked to death in art, as in Poussin's paintings. There is also an Arcadia bar in Manchester, and there is a Trojan Gardens in Salford near Manchester. The Doctor Who stars were in Salford on March 31, 2010, as part of a tour.

Valeyard???

Where did the rumor about the Valeyard appearing in this episode come from? Has anyone else heard about this?

I believe that was just someone's conclusion from Bill Nighy's appearnace. To me, he appears to be a perfect candidate for being the Valeyard too (and he supposedly plays "the doctor of art"... remember what the Valeyard meant?) But it's still just a speculation, and most likely very false one. 109.243.23.78 13:41, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

It's not Bill Nighy's appearance, it's Tim Jones. He has the exact same clothes as the Doctor, but he looks, well, different. I think he will be in "Amy's Choice" personally, as Steven Moffat talked of a "Dream Master" to appear in it.

Reason for suicide

The Van Gogh story is set in Provence, ie historically within the last 2 years of Van Gogh's life prior to him fatally shooting himself after experiencing severe undiagnosed depression / mental illness. During this period he did works for the 'Decoration of the Yellow House', and the Curtis rumour is that in the episode Van Gogh attacks a yellow monster. Any connection? Also, is this hinting at a possible explanation here for contributory factors to his suicide? 86.26.137.154 08:04, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

This was my thought as well, as it appears set at the end of his life - the description of him being a 'sad and lonely painter' I suppose indicates they are not going to try and be overly revisionist and provide a complete explanation of his suicide to avoid or gloss the 'messy business' of mental illness thats not often dealt with openly enough in tv etc - though it is a family adventure program, so who knows? DreamSong 06:51, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Thank god they're not any more revisionist as it is. As much as the DW team may believe that they're doing a good thing by making mental illness a topic, as much do they resort to the most stereotyped treatment imaginable: Mentally ill people are really not mentally ill at all, but just hiding their super powers, and what seems to be problems interacting with other people just comes from the fact that they're really much better people who can't always relate to normal people. I think lots of people with actual mental illnesses might be quite offended by that portrayal. One public guy once said in an interview that it was most tedious that whenever he told people that his child was autistic, they would immediately ask, "so is he very good at maths then?". But some people with mental problems really just have problems. They're not hiding super powers, they just need a little help. Hack59 09:37, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

It's not 'superpowers', he just has a different way of looking at the world. And as someone who has had various mental problems and to a lesser extent still does I can tell you I was far from offended by this episode. In fact I thought it was one of the most beautiful pieces of television in a long, long time. If anything I found your comment far more 'offensive'. Thanks. Carnivius Prime 20:08, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Doctor-Lite Episode?

I've heared that The Lodger is the Amy-lite epeisode, so reason tells me that Vincent and the Doctor is the Doctor-lite one. Is this true? I mean, I've seen clips of the Doctor from this episode, but the synopis seems to comfirm that it is at least from Amy's point of view. Any ideas? MidnightCat 17:12, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this episode is a Doctor-lite, I don't think season has one this season. I've seen clips of this from the trailer and it shows alot of the doctor being involved. :) -- Michael Downey 17:45, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

The Coming Soon montage at the end op ep 1 has clips from many episodes. Amy is seen wearing her scarf and outfit she wears in other stills released for this episode; she is seen wearing them as a semi wrecked Cyberman advances on her.

The alien of the episode

I don't know what to expect from this episode, alien-wise, but I'm expecting a cerberus-like creature. (For those who don't know, a cerberus is a three-headed dog, like Fluffy from Harry Potter). By the Doctor's words: "Could you breathe a little quieter please?" I think the creature must have phenomenal hearing. Meta-Levia, 16:37, May 30, 2010 (GMT)

I think it looks a bit like a nimon. TorchwoodGuy05 14:52, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

when the doc says he thinks he has seen the face before that could mean it is a old/oldish and the only clue we have got to that is a possible raxacorricofallapatorian apperence named timoreen (most rax familys end in een slithEEN blavarEEN) and the gray foot looks like a rax foot and when the "tail" sweeps that could be the arm for the arm is very long

Drwhoworld 09:32, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

IMHO it's a cockatrice, a mythical creature, part rooster with a large reptile/lizard like tail and wings, is invisible so no one sees it, and which, like a basilisk, has eyes which turn things to stone, hence the doctor running around with a mirror. 86.26.137.154 07:50, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

From the trailers, they remind me of the Reapers that appeared in the Ninth Doctor episode Father's Day (which could explain why the Doctor says that he's seen that face before). --Sudipal 21:27, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Here's what the Doctor says about the alien: "They travel in space, they travel as packs scavenging across the universe – sometimes one of them gets left behind and because they are a brutal race the others never come back, so, dotted all around the universe are individual, utterly merciless, utterly abandoned [insert name of monster], and what they do is, well kill until they’re killed, which they usual aren’t because other creatures can’t see them."

And he can only see it by looking back through a mirror.

His mirror-scanner-thingy device says this:

Planet of origin:

Uncertain

Social Structure:

Nomadic pack animals

Strict dominance hierarchy

Huge territories, several solar systems wide

Preferred habitats:

Planets with oxygen and nitrogen based atmospheres --Falcotron 23:34, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well I wasn't far off, surely the Krafayis is based on the mythical cockatrice that I suggested, it's only 'cos it's blind that no-one gets turned to stone, lol 86.26.137.154 08:22, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

"The episode was incorrectly entitled, Lend Me Your Ear"

Where did this assertion come from? MarcRS 23:25, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

• A Google search for it along with Doctor Who, only comes up with a fan claiming to be a worker for the BBC giving out names of episodes. A few are correct, but it's obvious he isn't from the bbc. "look im from the BBC and im here to tell you the names of the episode, the 1st one will be called the eleventh hour, the 2nd,meddling Monks, the 3rd, The Dalek Tea party,the 4th, time of the angels, the 5th, flesh and stone, the 6th, vampires of venice, the 7th, title unknown, the 8th, cold blood, the 9th, warm planet, the 10th, lend me your ear, the 11th, title unknown, the 12th, silver sentence (may feature cybermen) the 13th, Cyberwar(will feature cybermen) the christmas special, a crack in time(the doctor cathes a cold and turns into a GIRL)season 6 episode 1, title unknown the 2nd, the house of nothing. THERE WILL BE A DR WHO MOVIE COMING OUT IN CINEMAS ON THE 23/11/11 AND GUESS WHO’S BACK??? DAVID TENNANT!!!!!" You heard it here first, a Doctor Who Movie due for release 23/11/11. The Thirteenth Doctor 00:01, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
• wow, what a prick..... anyway, does anything remotely similar appear on the real painting, because I personally havn't been able to make out a monster in it. Lu-igi board

::OMG! A Doctor Who movie! Can't wait. Ha. Just kidding. I know it's a hoax. ☆The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)}☆ 11:18, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that's the original source - it's dated March 23rd and those titles were up on sylvestermccoy.com long before that - some of the admin here obviously read that site too, because they've used it's info as well. Most of what's there has now been changed to their proper titles, the parts from "a crack in time" onwards are still visible. At the top of the page it carries this warning: "Additional note. The following information has been assembled from various speculations from news reports, agencies, fans "in the know" and forums. Most of this is NOT confirmed. Please enjoy these possible spoilers while waiting for the real news!"I think that poster must have just got carried away - don't like the BBC imitation though..... so id guess Sylvy's site was the source you are looking for.Personally I like the " Lend me your ear" title better than "Vincent and the Doctor"Baziel 18:18, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

References to paintings

The clips indicate this episode will be similar to the Unicorn and the Wasp by alluding to several of Van Gogh's paintings, so a list of these should be added. So far the list should include the Church at Arles plus others seen in the Musee d'Orsay in what will presumably be the pre credits intro, then in the main body of the episode self portrait Summer 1887, Bedroom in Arles, Wheatfield with Crows, the Church at Auvers, Sunflowers in general, Cafe Terrace at Night, and probably Portrait of Dr Gachet, and The Night Cafe. 86.26.137.154 07:13, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

• I agree, but think that perhaps it should wait until after the episode airs and be put in a 'culture' or 'references' subsection. Some of these paintings also don't (as yet) directly appear but are alluded to in the set design and shots (ie. I think the episode is set in Auvers rather than Arles, though the bedroom and terrace scene from the trailer are dressed to look like the paintings made in Arles) DreamSong 08:01, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, and just to clarify, the clips I'm referring to are the 4 clips on the official site as well as the preview and next time clips previously made available, and between them all, indicate the dates and settings for the episode will be 3-fold, 1888 Arles, 1890 Auvers and 2010 Paris 86.26.137.154 09:20, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

From the clips, besides those of us who may know the locations of the paintings, I don't think that there is a clear indication that there is an 1888 and 1890 episode setting, I thought it was just a set design and writer's conceit to include those memorable references to the more famous paintings etc but that is indeed possible. It is also possible to have an earlier and later setting I guess thinking back to my uncertainty from the released clip concerning Vincent's distaste for sunflowers, which he had painted prior to 1890. I guess we shall see! cheers DreamSong 22:18, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

New spoilers

On Combom's blog, he merged together two batches of teasers (from Teen Today and SFX) for easy reading pleasure. Here they are:

01. “Arcadia, The Trojan Gardens, now this?”.

02. “He’s drunk, he’s mad and he never pays his bills.” Vincent is a popular chap.

03. The Doctor doesn’t know three things and one of them is about Miss Pond.

04. Speaking of Miss Pond, she’s from Holland you know.

05. It’s not very good news when a murder occurs.

06. “What is it with you and the ****c*?”

07. That useless, embarrassing present from a godmother with two heads and bad breath is actually quite useful.

08. It’s a parrot. No wait, it’s a polar bear. Is it?

09. Vincent can hear the song of Amy’s sadness.

10. “If there is one thing I can’t stand it’s an unpunctual ****n *t****.”

11. Sssh. You need to whisper in the confessions box.

12. That song may just make you shed a tear or two.

13. Just who or what could be The Ultimate Ging.

14 In some ways it’s the most unusual Doctor Who ever episode ever – never has the show been less plot-lead and more character-led

15 It’s very, very emotional at times

16 Anyone expecting an out-and-out comedy from Richard Curtis will be surprised. This is about Van Gogh – it doesn’t shy away from depression and suicide. If anything, the episode is quite melancholy.

17 The opening scene is a blinder.

18 An ongoing gag about the TARDIS’s abilities won’t make any sense to people who don’t know the show inside-out.

19 Objects in the rear view mirror may appear closer than they are.

20 There’s a glorious visual reference to the painting “Starry Night”.

21 The Doctor makes a slip of the tongue.

22 There’s some mutual sartorial appreciation going on.

23 There’s a major story element that some will decry as a massive plot hole and others will embrace on a metaphorical level.

24 The TARDIS is redecorated.

25 Two former Doctors make an unexpected appearance (for one of them it’s their third appearance this year).

And now for the speculation. :) --Falcotron 16:24, June 3, 2010 (UTC

The First Doctor Will Appear as he has appeared twice already Liamhenney 16:29, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

25. That will be either the first or tenth. The first, The Eleventh Hour and Vampires of Venice. Tenth, End of Time and The Eleventh Hour. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 16:30, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

if the doc has a mirror then thet could meen gorgon or something?

and if two make a apperence depends how there is flash back, recording , or physical apperence witch will be a real shock

and..... if the tardis is "redcorated" then thet colud mean the tardis gets cracked (my way of saying tacken by crack) but becuse it is a time mechine it survives only to be dameged that colud be why the doc makes a new one in loger?

?Drwhoworld 21:16, June 3, 2010 (UTC)?

Drwhoworld, I would be incredibly happy if you could do four things:

• Stop putting everything in center tags.
• Stop using as much vertical space as possible for everything you have to say.
• Create new sections instead of finding a completely unrelated section to throw your comments into.
• Get a spell-checker. For IE, you can get IE7Pro (free); for Firefox, there are a few zillion add-ons (all free); most other browsers have it built in. --Falcotron 23:28, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

19 refers to the fact that the alien can only be seen in a rear-view mirror.

22 refers to Bill Nighy (who's sadly only got a pretty small part) and the Doctor.

25 refers to the First and Second Doctors. When the Doctor looks at himself in the mirror-scanny-thing, that's what it identifies. --Falcotron 23:39, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ok went through twice and got all but #18 and #23, I now think I've got 23 (I'm assuming the fact the Krafayis isn't in the window anymore, so why did they go back in the first place?) - but I still don't quite get #18, all i can match it upto is a comment about the godmother's present. Anyone catch this?Baziel 01:42, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

"18. An ongoing gag about the TARDIS’s abilities won’t make any sense to people who don’t know the show inside-out." The TARDIS translates languages for those who travel in it. If you try to speak in the foreign language of the area, they instead here you speak in a different foreign language (so a Roman citizen hears Donna's latin words as being Celtic words). And now, it appears, it messes with accents too - the Dutch Vincent van Gogh is speaking in French, and thinks Amy, also presumably being translated into French, has a Dutch accent, while she and the Doctor hear his Dutch accented French as English with a Scottish accent. Lokiofmidgaard 02:05, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe 18 is why the Krafayis can understand the Doctor. Or maybe 23 has to deal with why Amy can't understand the Krafayis but the Doctor can even though only at the end. Not understanding it may be a metaphor for them misunderstanding it and people misunderstanding Vincent. V00D00M0NKY 05:28, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

23 is the mixing up / together of the Arles cafe scene and painting, his house and the bedroom painting and the vase of 12 sunflowers pictures which were all actually painted in 1888 as being the same place and timeline as the 1 - 3 June 1890 setting in Auvers where he painted the church and wheatfield with crows etc. Also, not all the paintings shown as being at the Musee d'Orsay are actually held theres, plus the lack of references to his left ear (which is only actually seen in shot twice I think as majority of shots of the other side of his face) as Curtis didn't want to make any jokes etc about that, and that's also why there is such a mix up in the article having 3 different dates being stated 86.26.137.154 07:36, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

"Maybe 18 is why the Krafayis can understand the Doctor." - but that's hardly a gag. Hence why I think it is the accent thing, a subtle joke in regards to the TARDIS' translation ability. Lokiofmidgaard 11:58, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going with the accents for 18 because that could be considered a gag - and the missing Krafayis in the painting for 23 - as that IS a massive plot hole that people can embrace on a metaphorical level(as above, why did they go back if there wasn't a monster in the painting? and It's gone we've changed something for the better), getting his paintings in the wrong order is more or less irrelevant to the casual viewerBaziel

23 is obviously the fact that we never get a real explanation as to why Vincent can see the Krafayis. 82.21.236.138 16:38, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

21::: "Right then, Amy, Rory, Vincent!" (The Doctor) Who7 16:02, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

I watched the episode once and couldn't figure out No. 3 : 03. The Doctor doesn’t know three things and one of them is about Miss Pond.

Can someone tell me what are those 3 things? 91.73.110.107 17:50, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

the three things come up when they first meet Vincent at the Cafe:-Vincent says the Doc doesn't know three things - thing1- Vincent pays for his own drinks- thing2- No-one ever buys his paintings- thing3 - (with the precursor of "your friend's cute but..") Doctor should keep his nose out of other peoples business.Baziel 23:04, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Great quote

After a a season of "doing the running thing" and telling everyone to shut up so he can figure out how to save the world in 8 minutes, 11 finally gets a chance to relax for a bit--and he actually didn't know what it was like until then. His reaction: "Is this how time really passes? Really slowly... and in the right order...?" --Falcotron 23:24, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Crafayis

According to the TV mag in The Sun today, the monster is called the Crafayis. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 09:54, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

TV Mag In THE SUN? 'you really believe that? ' Liamhenney 11:56, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

And, looks like it was right, apart from a slight name difference in spelling. User:Solar Dragon/Signature 20:32, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Time

Im getting confused this episode is scheduled to be 45 mins but the time says 6.40 to 7.30 so shouldn't it be 50 mins.The mysterious 16:36, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Thats earth time. In real-time space years its 4 years long :P The Human Doctor 20:26, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Big continuity error

Just, a big mistake. In 1890 Van Gogh was suppose to have already cut his ear(He cut it off in 1988, according to wikipedia)... Yet no mention in the episode...193.48.172.104 23:34, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

1988? Had he already traveled in the TARDIS before this? :) --Falcotron 23:48, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

production error: the wires are visible when Matt gets hit inside the church and flies through the air.

Story line the crack and eyes!!

While Vincent is painting the dr.s says he remembers telling Picasso "it is just an EYE one Eye... on either side of the face!" and there is the eye reference.

When the Doctor and Amy fade away the camera pulls back and there is a tree limb in the foreground that bears a striking resemblance to Amy's crack.

also there is music that suggests something important/"menacing" is happening when the branch shows.

LOL! Can we not call it "Amy's Crack" please. --Looq 11:30, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Any body see anything else.

• Well, for the eyes, there's the whole "monster you can't see thing". The Thirteenth Doctor 10:44, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
• Did anybody notice the paper from the posters had been incinerated when the Tardis materializes outside of the gallery, seems odd as when the Doctor left Shakespear an arrow managed to stay stuck in the door and also Captain Jack held onto the outside while traveling through the vortex.92.30.0.248 20:56, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
• We've seen that it's a new vortex. One with lightning. If the lightning hit the paper... it would go on fire. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:05, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Continuity Marrying?

Amy tells Vincent that she's not the marrying type even though she is still technically engaged and was about to marry Rory. V00D00M0NKY 05:35, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Actually she is not engaged to Rory on the account he never existed.Ozzymonkey 08:58, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

That's the whole point about her running away! She had cold feet, and maybe considered herself not the marrying type. Now Rory doesn't exist, she can continue on without the worry she'd be getting married. Alienatedduck 10:00, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Date of the 1880s

I haven't yet seen this episode, but with so many people writing up this article, why is it that three seperate years - 1888, 1889 and 1890 - can all be found here? Which is right?

It should be 1890 as indicated by Dr Black in the episode. The mix up is no 23 on the list of 'new spoilers' above, see my post in that section which explains 86.26.137.154 08:09, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Myths and Legend link

Should something be added as a reference about the connection / link to the legends of Perseus and slaying Medusa (as we saw the statue in the museum), and to St George and the dragon (as shown above the church door). And therefore Vincent 'saving' Amy from the monster is comparable to Andromeda and the princess.86.26.137.154 08:17, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Crack?

When Amy and the Doctor are at the art gallery after dropping Vincent back home, did anyone notice where it zoomed in on the flowers painting and just below where it says "For Amy" It's a Crack? PB-Billy 08:46, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Are you talking about where it says "Vincent"? V00D00M0NKY 21:20, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Not a crack that is a signture.

Using the Chest

In the continuity section, it mentions about the chest being used to retrieve something. It said that this was dropped in the ninth and tenth incarnations, but the tenth did, he used a chest to get an Agatha Christie novel, so I've added this in. Another possible time, though I'm not sure, is when he gets the ghost catching thing out of the TARDIS in Army of Ghosts. The Thirteenth Doctor 11:38, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, he pulled out several artifacts from pervious episodes including a cybus-man chest peice and the witches from the Shakespear Code, showing that the Tenth (and probably Ninth) Doctors used these chests frequently (abiet off-screen) --Looq 11:43, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

why Van Gogh could see it

The museum guide explained it to you, Van Gogh had the gretest "eye" ( there is another one ) for color there ever was. He was so intuned with nature that the invisible creature must have looked like the predator to him. He knew what nature truly looked like and what belonged and that monster did not belong. I took the starry night sequence as an example of how he saw the world.Xombygodd 13:20, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Not Explained

HOW COME VAN GOGH COULD SEE IT? It wasnt explained was it?

See the above topic. The Thirteenth Doctor 13:48, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Companion status for a certain ginger

SPOILERS AHEAD

Right, to make the question short and clear: Should we consider Vincent van Gogh a companion now? He travelled into the future aboard the TARDIS, fought of a monster in the (his) present and they apparantly consider each other really good friends. 90.134.2.235 14:34, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

i would say he is a one off companion. you are correct that he did travel, so he is a companion. but, he only went there because the Doctor and Amy wanted to show him how important he was in history, so technically he isnt. I would put him in the "friends which travelled but not are quite compions" list lolOoiue 14:39, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

@Ooiue to shortened it, it could be 'guest companions' then state the appearance in brackets.

Please sign your posts with four tildes (~).

Also, please read Forum:Disputed Companions. Currently, there's no consensus yet on what the rules for a "companion" are, but there does seem to be a consensus that anyone who's not a "definite companion" should not be added until the issue is resolved. --Falcotron 13:54, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Amy from Holland

When the Doctor says that Amy is from Holland, isn't this a reference to the fact that both Karen Gillan and Tony Curran have Scottish accents, and since van Gogh is Dutch (and would have a Dutch accent) the TARDIS gives Amy a Dutch accent. Yeah? The Thirteenth Doctor 21:23, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. They explained that in Confidential. --Falcotron 11:20, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

TARDIS console reference

Was I the only one to notice that the Doctor plugged the species identification thing into a component that had the Magpie Electronics logo on it from the episode 'the Idiots Lantern'? Seems that way.

No, you weren't. Very good spot, did you notice the Magpie reference in The Beast Below? ScoutDaddy70 16:54, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Plot

The plot here is really over-detaled - it documents full conversations! We really don't need that. MidnightCat 15:13, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'm just adding it as proper as possible. After I've added it, feel free to tone it down, I just don't like missing any details out, that's always been the way I write plots. The Thirteenth Doctor 15:21, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, to be honest, I don't think it's too detailed. That is the plot. If you take out the details, it makes it an extended, lengthened synopsis. I think it's more the fact the others aren't detailed enough. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:07, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Even so, there has to be consistency. None of the other episode articles have such detailed summaries; most of the time they describe the plot in a far more concise and easy to read fashion. This one is just plain difficult to read.Dartblaze 12:24, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

How is it difficult to read? The Thirteenth Doctor 12:48, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

It's not so much that it's difficult to read, as that it takes way too long. If I want to know what happened in a story, I want a good, concise summary. If I want to know every detail of the entire thing, it would be far more entertaining and more useful to just watch it.

Also, somethingthis long is far too much bother for anyone edit. From a quick scan, I can tell that "easel" is spelled as "easle", "Vincent" is spelled as "Vincet" and "Vicent", so obviously no one has read through it carefully, and I doubt anyone ever will.

Also, IANAL, but quoting entire conversations is probably pushing the limits of the generic fair-use exemption that this wiki relies on.

Most importantly, regardless of what any of us individually think, the Manual of Style and related documents for this wiki set the rules. According to Tardis:Format for Television Story Entries#Plot, "The Plot is a more detailed summary of the story" than the synopsis. Exactly what you say it shouldn't be, the manual says it should be. So, you're wrong, for this wiki.

The example given for other stories to follow is The Tenth Planet#Plot, which has 1 to 5 paragraphs per 25-minute episode, for 14 paragraphs in total. This implies that a 45-minute episode should probably fit into 10 paragraphs, and certainly into 14--but yours is 43 paragraphs long. --Falcotron 13:44, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I wrote it as best I could, especially for an episode which rely's heavily on the dialogue. And I don't see anywhere where I've quoted entire conversations. And given that the episode is a character/dialogue based episode and not a plot one, it's hard to write about it without explaining it in detail. If you can see any way to cut it down the please do so, but I can't see any way. As for the spelling mistakes, that's just human error. The Thirteenth Doctor 14:58, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

It is way too long, it four times the size of stories where a lot happens. Anyone who hasn't seen the episode would assume its the fastest-paced most action packed episode of the season, you've gone a little over the top. There is far too much detail, and no-one will read it all.Baziel 12:53, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Chances lyrics

Surely the lyrics are relevant so should they be included in the article, or just included as a link such as

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Chances-lyrics-Athlete/B43E4C63963B34BA48256F9C00095E6C

or \http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/a/athlete/chances.html

86.26.137.154 05:43, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

• The Lyrics aren't important. We've noted the song, if people want to know more, they can find out for themselves. The Thirteenth Doctor 12:08, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
• Posting the lyrics would be a copyright violation and Wikia has rules against that. This wiki is a bit less anal about images than Wikipedia, but it shares the same issues regarding copyvios. You can't post full transcripts of episodes here and you can't post complete song lyrics. Single lines may be referenced if there's a specific point to be made, but the lyrics in full cannot be used. 68.146.81.123 02:20, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Discontinuity in paintings

There are some discontinuity in the paintings. When the Doctor and Amy arrive at Vincent's house, he tells them to watch out for a painting which is still wet, Bedroom in Arles. However, he painted that in 1988, and one of his other paintings (Portrait of Dr. Gachet) was already painted and inside, even though it was supposed to be painted after the Bedroom one. I don't know, should we list these as discontinuity... or errors by the production team. I'm not sure. And I'm pretty sure if we look more into it, there will be more... The Thirteenth Doctor 13:03, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

It's not a discontinuity unless it contradicts something else in the Whoniverse--which, remember, is not exactly the same as our universe. (Van Gogh could have painted them in a slightly different order.)

It could be a production error, but it really depends on Richard Curtis's and Jonny Campbell's intentions. In Confidential, Curtis explicitly said that he was careful not to become too much of an expert and that he strayed from actual history in a few places for the sake of the story. Is it an error if it's intentional?

It is probably worth listing blatant anachronisms _somewhere_; I'm just not sure where. --Falcotron 13:50, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Lend Me Your Ear?

So where was it ever suggested that this would be the title for the episode (per the Story Notes)? I've never seen this anywhere. If someone just made that up, it needs to be removed, otherwise cite it. 68.146.81.123 02:21, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I noticed the way the cast pronounced Vincent's name is listed as a production error. The truth is his name is pronounced differently in different regions and countries and none of them are really considered incorrect pronunciations. Wollstone 12:20, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Underworld connection

This episode marks the Third episode of the new series to feature actors/actresses from the Underworld franchise. The first was Sophia Myles as Reinette, Madame de Pompadour in The Girl in the Fireplace during season two played Erika the vampire friend of the female protagonist in the first Underworld movie and in a flashback in it's sequel Underworld: Evolution. Next, was Derek Jacobi as Professor Yana/The Master in the first part of the three part season three finally, Utopia. In this episode both Tony Curran as Vincent van Gogh and Bill Nighy as Dr. Black (uncredited) are also from the Underworld franchise. Curran as the vampire Elder turned hybrid, Markus in Underworld: Evolution and Nighy as the vampire Elder, Viktor in all three Underworld Movies. Curran later returns as van Gogh in the first part of the two part of the fifth seson finally The Pandorica Opens. Tripodssj6 15:28, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

'Solar System' as production error?

It appears this is still being debated by multiple parties, so I guess the right thing to do is to bring it up here. A production error was added that the mirror device refers to "spanning several solar systems". The rationale for adding the error states that the term Solar System refers specifically just to our particular star system. A cursory web search will bring up multiple dictionary sites which offer a second definition of solar system being applied generically to other star systems as well. Given that such definitions do exist, it seems to me that the use of the term by the production staff was justified, even if another term (like stellar systems) may have been somewhat preferable. I advocate for removing the reference from the production error area. That being said, I welcome other thoughts and opinions on the matter. Spreee 19:31, September 8, 2010 (UTC)Spreee

• The one thing about dictionaries though is that they develop to include meanings of misused words as well. If you went back in time, gay wouldn't list homosexual as being a meaning, but it does nowadays because it is commonly used.
• I've Based my edits based on the wikipedia articles Solar System, Planetary system and Star system, so sorry Mr IP for not having a degree in astronomy, and I would rather you not accuse me of basing edits on personal belief. --The Thirteenth Doctor 19:43, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
• Wikipedia is wrong. You should based your edits on more credible sources. NASA uses the term solar system to describe any systems similar to the Solar System too. The term solar system has been used in that sense since the idea of having other solar systems existed and this sense is still in used today. Putting in controversial topics as a production error is misleading, especially when you acknowledge that you don't have a good grasp of the subject. --203.168.176.42 22:17, September 8, 2010 (UTC)