Howling:Death of the Doctor

The Howling → Death of the Doctor

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So now that we know that the Doctor will die at age 1103, still in his Eleventh incarnation, does that mean that Matt Smith will be the last actor to play the Doctor? Obviously, time can be rewritten, but River claims that this will cause a paradox.Icecreamdif 17:22, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

Being logical about the series, I think it's safe to say that the Doctor's death must be undone. The producers of the show simply cannot limit themselves into not letting the Doctor regenerate again. Saying that the Doctor will not regenerate after Matt Smith would not work for them. So the only satisfactory resolution of the story arc is to undo his death. Meanwhile, we know that they cannot allow Song, Amy & Rory to use their knowledge of his death to change its outcome. This would create a Paradox. Now, we know that James Corden is back this series. Remember in The Lodger, there was an unexplained Tardis-looking room? Remember how in the Impossible Astronaut, there was a similar looking unexplained Tardis-looking room. I believe these are related. We have an unexplained room that looks like a TARDIS appearing twice, including in an episode which needs a paradox to be resolved. I think that this is to become a Paradox Machine, like the Master created from the Doctor's TARDIS. The explanation of the room must come from something in the long period in which the Doctor has aged. MichaelBlackburn 17:58, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

They probably will find someway to rewrite time without creating a paradox. Whether or not they use the lodger TARDIS to create a paradox machine, the bigger question is where does it come from. It seems weird that whenever they see a character alive in the future, the Doctor believes that it is still possible for them to die, since time can be rewritten, but when the Doctor of the future dies, they can't change anything because it would create a paradox.Icecreamdif 19:06, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

The explanation for that is the usual: the Doctor inately knows what of time can be rewritten and what of time can't; the rest of them don't. What I don't get is why they can't tell the Doctor what's happened and ask him if his death is set in stone. Kayjeth 04:40, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well River is the one telling Amy and Rory not to tell him. This may be the reason he invited her knowing she would do that. There's probably some reason that the future Doctor knows to explicitly not tell the present Doctor. If it wasn't for River, Amy would have told the present Doctor almost immidiately. I'm sure the Doctor will find out on his own since the future Doctor obviously knew he was going to die there. The main question I have is why did the Doctor even go to his own death when he could have clearly avoided it? He was obviously running and doing a 10th Doctor End of Time deal where he was going out and doing random things for fun before he had to face his death. V00D00M0NKY 12:48, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

I think we will find out in Part 2 why the Doctor willing went to his death. The question remains, though: Is there no 12th Doctor? Will the show end with Matt Smith leaves? Are they setting up the series to end on a high note? I know none of the fans want that to be the case, but still, is that what Moffet is intending? -- Rest In Peace Sarah Jane \ Talk to me! 13:24, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Although finding some way to undo the Doctor's death would allow the series to go on for longer, Moffat did claim that when a character died this season, he wouldn't be lying or cheating. Rewriting time to undo the Doctor's death does seem like cheating, even if he did still die in one timeline. Since the Doctor has 194 years left before he dies, the show could still last for a while if this really is his final death, although I somehow doubt that Matt Smith is going to stay on the show for 194 years.Icecreamdif 14:37, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Ok. Even though I hope your wrong, if I remember correctly, Moffat said something about solving the problem of limited regenerations. The Doctor dying before he runs out of regenerations is one way of solving that problem. Even though, with the given information, it makes sense that the Doctor really does die at that age and in that body, I really don't think Moffat will leave it that way. Or at least I hope not. Because that will mean that once Matt is done with the show, the show is done. V00D00M0NKY 16:14, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

has anyone considered that The Doctor's killer could be a past/future version of River? that would explain alot and could make sense if done right. 86.21.11.196

It could also help explain why she was so adamant about not telling the Doctor. Perhaps she already did. Maybe the little girl was River and the older version of River is what killed him. Future for the Doctor, past for River...just like everything else. -- Rest In Peace Sarah Jane \ Talk to me! 15:03, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Its possible that River was acting, but she seemed just as shocked and surprised as everyone else when the Doctor died. She seemed very upset when the Doctor was shot during regeneration, and she seemed really annoyed and slapped him when she found out that he planned the whole thing. Of course, it is possible that River was the astronaut, but in her future, though that doesn't explain why she is in Stormcage.Icecreamdif 16:37, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

• Just to clear up, the reason they can't tell the past Doctor is because the same thing would happen as did in Father's Day. The reason the Reaper's showed up is because Rose saved Pete, and cancelled out the reason her past self came back in time a second time. If Amy, Rory or River told the Doctor of the Astronaut he would most likely try to stop it, and if he did, then it would cancel out the reason they travelled back in time to 1969 in the first place. --The Thirteenth Doctor 16:50, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Telling the Doctor would not cause that to happen. The only reason we think it may cause a paradox is because River Song said it would, and she is the one with things to hide. -- Rest In Peace Sarah Jane \ Talk to me! 17:32, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

That's basically what I said. I'm convinced the Doctor invited her for that reason. The future Doctor should know who River is by the time he died and trusts her more than Amy and Rory (River got envelope #2). River is there for a specific reason and one of those reasons is to keep Amy and Rory from messing anything up like telling the Doctor before he should know. V00D00M0NKY 17:39, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

River may have things to hide, but she is right about preventing the Doctor's death being a paradox. If they save the Doctor, he won't be killed, and they will never go back in time to save him in the first place. In Father's Day, part of the reason the Reapers showed up was because the Doctor and Rose had already been there twice, but even if the reapers don't show up, saving the Doctor would still cause a paradox.Icecreamdif 18:22, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Not occured to anyone that the dead Doctor could just be the cloned Doctor we keep hearing about? 82.23.86.126 14:51, April 26, 2011 (UTC) Ghadius

Assuming that this is the real Doctor, isn’t the doctor’s death already a paradox? River suggests that she has personally met multiple doctors. From her comment “Oh, it's so strange when you go all baby-face. How early is this for you?" in Time of Angels implies that she has encountered older appearing Doctors previously in her timeline and later in the Doctor’s (perhaps multiple of both young and old). So the Doctor not regenerating into these later incarnations would mean that River had not met these incarnations of the Doctor and potentially would not have met the Doctor in the first place.

Also I would like to make the point that the only proof that the companions have is Canton’s word. How does he know that that is the Doctor. If the Doctor told him so then we have to take it with a grain of salt since the Doctor lies all the time to suit his own needs or to manipulate someone into behaving the way he wants them to.MasterIII 17:14, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Older looking not necessarily older in age. This could be any of the previous 10 Doctors considering Matt Smith is the youngest actor to play him. Meaning that River saying that 11 "went all babyface" does not mean this is a younger incarnation than another that she met. Hence not necessarily a paradox in that sense.

In regards to the idea that it's not really the Doctor, that very well could be true. How are we to know that even River is telling the truth about knowing nothing about this? We know nothing about Canton yet but you are right. How is Canton to be more sure than the other three? As far as we know he only knew the Doctor for that short period of time in 1969. Unless the Doctor specifically told him about his death but even there we know the Doctor has lied before to get people to do things they normally wouldn't. V00D00M0NKY 18:06, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think the past Doctor does know about his future self. when they're on there way to 1969 and the Doctor asks Rory if everyone's angry at him after Rory walks away, the Doctor looks back with concern. so I think either he is worried about what he doesn't know, or is hiding something. And yeah I definately think the future Canton is hiding something, as he was obviously told something hence why he brought gasoline. what else might he know? 86.21.11.196

The past Doctor may suspect that his future self is involved, but he doesn't know it for a fact. The reason he looks worried, is because he has revieved a mysterious summons to 1969, and Amy, Rory, and River all know who summoned him, but they refuse to tell him, and they are angry at him for some reason. Obviously, this worries the Doctor.Icecreamdif 20:25, April 27, 2011 (UTC)