Howling:Gallifrey's destruction

The Howling → Gallifrey's destruction

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Is it at all possible that Gallifrey's destruction occured at a point in time before the final battle of the Time War, from the perspective of the non-combatant civilisations? That is to say, could the Time Lords have discovered evidence during the War that Gallifrey was already destined to be destroyed at some point in their personal future? Similar to how in the latest series, the Eleventh Doctor has already died at Lake Silencio in 2011 before his other adventures? 82.2.136.93 10:40, November 8, 2011 (UTC)

The end of Series 4 clearly suggested that they do, thus they needed to implant a link in the Master's mind. I think one of the main element of the war was that even if they knew something, they couldn't be certain of it, as the Timelady clearly indicated that the Daleks and the Timelords were changing history over and over again within the war. It is quite clear that the war went out of control and laws were violated even by the Timelord, with whatever changeable in their power were indeed manipulated. It is also quite clear that the aliens encountered thus far, whenever aware that Timelords are gone seem to have no knowledge of the time lock, and as to whether they believe Gallifrey to be destroyed or not, I think it would be largely irrelevant to most races as the Timelords are extremely ancient to most of the races that we have encountered and have knowledge of them, and they are shrouded in mystery. Most of them would know very little about society let alone the detail of their downfall. The aliens also seem to have no knowledge that Timelords have, through regenerations during the war, degenerated into an agressive race, so it is quite evident that they would all know very little about anything related to the war. --222.166.181.36 16:08, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

One classic series adventure that I don't think could happen in the current timeline would be The Mysterious Planet. That story involved people millions of years in the future sneaking onto Gallifrey and stealing secrets from the Matrix, after which the Time Lords dislocated Earth from its orbit and renamed it Ravalox. But as of circa 2007 AD, Gallifrey is inaccessible, so people indigenous to 1,999,500 AD wouldn't have been able to go there, would they? The idea presented in the new series is that Gallifrey and the Time Lords no longer exist anywhere or anywhen in time and space, whether in the past, present or future. Of course, this does beg the question of how the Third Doctor was still exiled to Earth to become UNIT's scientific advisor in the current version of events......82.2.136.93 19:07, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nope, nowhere has it ever indicate that Gallifrey or Timelords are wiped from existence. Gallifrey is timelocked, and that's it, not inexistent, not dead, etc. Any story with any people from any time are not ruled out because of the war as the Timelock occurs relative to Gallifrey's timeline only. Moreover, Gallifrey is in ancient past anyway, so it wouldn't matter what time in the Humanitarian Era the time traveller is from. --222.166.181.68 20:36, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Well Gallifrey was destroyed. The Doctor burned it. The Time Lock is just why nobody can travel into the Time War or to a point before the war. However, it wasn't destroyed as of circa 2007 AD. The Time Lords are time travellers. Before the war they could have travelled to 1,999,500 or 2007 or any other time. It the Doctor talked to Sabalom Glitz or travelled to Ravalox, he would still find things the same, even though the Time Lords are now gone.Icecreamdif ^{talk to me} 21:06, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

There's still the problem of how races like the Sontarans can be so certain that the Time War is over and done with, or that the Doctor they're seeing is the one who's experienced Gallifrey's destruction, when they're stuck in linear time. 82.2.136.93 22:30, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

This, by the way, is the main reason I suspect that during the Time War, the Time Lord's sphere of influence was confined to a point before 2005 (when the Nestene Consciousness attacks Earth after its protein planets have been wiped out in the War, in Rose). Though if that was the case, you'd wonder why the Daleks, who operated from the future, would be so determined to conquer them......82.2.136.93 22:42, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

You can ignore Icecreamdif's comment, it contradicts with what's shown in the End of Time. The point was raised in an old thread and a possibility was raised that the Doctor cannot travel to any time that would open up a probability of interfereing the timelock. And even if this is true, because the beginning and end of time is so huge that the chance of encountering a time he can't travel to would be slim. Moreover, you can pretty much assume that if a race is time aware, then they would be pretty darn careful about what they say unless they are pretty sure of it. We know that Daleks wouldn't dare to mess with fixed points, and we know that both Cybus Cybermen and Daleks have collected extensive information concerning the Doctor including his different incarnations, so if Cybus Cybermen can do it, then you can assume pretty much everyone can do it. The name Rassilon Era is probably a good indication of Timelord's era of major influence, thus it's quite unreasonable to assume that the Timelord has a clear sphere of influence that extends to sometime in the Humanian Era. --222.166.181.32 23:14, November 10, 2011 (UTC)