Talk:Boekind

Face of Boe

The face of boe is NOT the typical Boekind. We can only presume that it is an evolved form of Captain Jack Harkness, an exceptional Humanoid in the sense that he is "immortal" or cannot die (never stated he is immortal). Based on all the flashbacks in Torchwood series of Jack Harkness's past, Boekind at the turn of the 51st century were still humanoid in all aspects and infact appear much like earth humans. This entry is for Boekind in general, NOT the face of boe, he has his own entry. I think the "conclusion" that all boekind are the same as face of boe is false, he is simply an exception to the rule. We have already encountered 2 other boekinds, 3 if you include Cpt. Jack Harkness, with John Hart and Gray. both of them were humanoid in appearance, same as Cpt. Jack Harkness. --68.90.225.31 00:56, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay

The edits are based on a presumption rather than any demonstrated facts. It is an assumption that John Hart is from the same place as Jack. It is never stated one way or the other. The edits have been rolled back because they are based on an assumption that Jack is the Face of Boe. Where does the information come from that at the turn of the 51st century Boekind were humanoid? --Tangerineduel 17:02, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

The fact of the humanoid AND invasion of the Boekind were in multiple Torchwood Episodes from series/season 2. AdamExit Wounds and Jack mentions it once or twice in DW episodes, but can't pin point them right now. Also, the "assumption" that Jack IS the Face of Boe has been acknowledged and verified by Russell T Davies, Julie Gardner, and actor John Barrowman.

"Producer Julie Gardner, however, has been more assertive in this regard, most recently stating outright at the 2008 San Diego Comic Con that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness. Similarly, the Torchwood Declassified featurette from Torchwood Series 2 has John Barrowman, David Tennant and Russell T Davies explictly stating that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness."

Since the writers, producers, and actors have all agreed that Jack is Face of Boe, why can it not be written in the wiki? I personally don't catch the Torchwood Declassified or Dr. Who Declassified airings, being from the US, but it has been quoted multiple times on multiple websites, including this very wiki click on Behind the Scenes. where does the information come that the Face of Boe is the FIRST of boekind, like it keeps getting changed to? How could he have been the first and have a mother and father? Jack describes in Last of the Time Lords that he is called Face of Boe simply by being the first to join the time agency from the Boeshane Peninsula.--IkeRay 17:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay

The inhabitants of the Boeshane Peninsula have never been named or linked to the Boekind, and there's no evidence that they weren't humans.

In any case, just because some of the producers believe something doesn't mean that all the later producers will agree with and put it in the episodes. There has never been anything in the episodes or the novels or the comics or the audio series or anything canon that Jack is the Face of Boe and that the inhabitants of the Boeshane Peninsula were the Boekind. Until there is, this is just speculations. -<Azes13 18:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Wait, I understand that because the producers agreed it doesn't make it true, but you're overlooking a key aspect, Russell T Davies has created the "2" characters. He also adds the lines that have lead to all the hubbub, including adding the line "old friend" to the speech the Face of Boe gives the Doctor and the line at the end of series 3 Last of the Time Lords, "I was called, 'The Face of Boe'". if you want to claim that boekind is not humanoid, where is the proof that boekind is exactly like the Face of Boe? thats like picking a mutated human with 11 fingers and 3 eyes and saying that is typical human. Why can we assume that Face of Boe is the first and last of Boekind, but not assume that Jack's flashbacks (the only visual proof of anything) are of humans and not boekind?--IkeRay 22:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay

The Face of Boe is the only example of Boekind that is actually stated to being 'Boekind', hence he is the only source of information.

Unless the information is sourced from within a story it can't be included in the main body of an in-universe article. --Tangerineduel 03:01, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Jack "the face of Boe" Harkness is a human who currently can't die. The Face of Boe is a giant head, several billions of years old, and capable of giving birth to what we think we can safely presume are creatures like it. Five billion years into the future the rest of his kind had long been "extinct" as Novice Hame put it.

This article exists to detail anything known about these creatures not human beings from the Boeshane Peninsula, even if one of them might eventually become the founder of Boekind.--Nyktimos 04:05, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I have to ask, is Rex officially the second member of Boekind after the events of Miracle Day? Cledwin83 ^{talk to me} 12:49, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

It's still debatable if Jack's the first. -- Tybort (talk page) 14:30, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

I would hope though that we are all in agreement that he is the last of Boekind at the very least. That said, I would wager that by virtue of him being the first TRUE immortal that I am aware of in the series (not counting entities such as the Old Ones and other Pre-Event things) that it is easy to assume that he is also the first of what I can only assume is in essence at the very least a very very long lived race, if not an immortal race. (I mean I don't even think Jack technically died of Old Age in the more traditional sense...) Cledwin83 ^{talk to me} 14:40, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

What? Why the heck would Rex Matheson possibly be considered Boekind? He's obviously human, from Earth. This conversation is slipping off the rails. Like Tybort said, it's absolutely debatable that Jack is Boekind at all, so to extrapolate yet another step is fairly — what's the word for it? — crazy. We have exactly one narrative snippet here. Jack says he grew up on the Boeshane Peninsula. He was handsome. Therefore the Time Agency calls him the "Face of Boe". That doesn't mean he's Boekind. That doesn't mean he becomes the Face of Boe that features in Gridlock. That means that "Boeshane Peninsula" is sometimes contracted to the word "Boe". That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. That is the only fact which can be gleaned from Last of the Time Lords, and mention of "Boekind" has never since happened.

We therefore have no narrative proof that Jack is "Boekind". We have no tie between the words "Boekind" and "the Boeshane Peninsula". In the intervening time, we've seen Jack die in a variety of ways, and he always reverts to a John Barrowman-shaped near-human. There is absolutely no narrative indication that he is progressing towards a look even vaguely resembling the Face of Boe, nor have we seen any basis for believing that Jack's voice is mutating into that of the Face of Boe. According to in-universe evidence, Jack is not the Face of Boe. There is merely an amusing coincidence between his nickname as a lad and that of the "last of Boekind".

And whatever Boekind are, they aren't Jack. We saw the Face of Boe die. He was described as the last of his kind, which means that other Boekind have died throughout history. Whatever it means to be Boekind does not include the "fixed point in time"-ness of Jack's post-Rose Tyler existence. It would take an extrapolation beyond what is narratively available to say that somehow, in the future, Jack lost his immortality and became a great big face with a decidedly British accent in a much, much lower register. Therefore, we cannot say that Jack is a member of the Boekind species. And if we can't say that, then we sure as heck have no basis to claim Rex is a Boekind.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  <span style="">19:15: Thu 29 Dec 2011 

40 years?

Where exactly in The Long Game does it mention the Boekind's usual 40-year lifespan? I only recall it saying the Face of Boe was pregnant. 94.2.154.27 19:52, July 1, 2011 (UTC)