Howling:Would the Sontarans really annhilate the Rutans?

The Howling → Would the Sontarans really annhilate the Rutans?

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In "The Gunpowder Plot", the Rutans and the Sontarans both race to 1600s England to retrieve two doomsday weapons that would completely wipe out an entire race. At the end, both have one weapon, but the Doctor has meddled with them so they would be dangerous to use. But would the Sontarans really have used the weapon to destroy all the Rutans in the first place? With no Rutans there would be no war and with no war the Sontarans would have no purpose in life. With no enemy, they would either be forced to wage war on their own or another race to ensure they died in battle, because to them it was a disgrace not to. I think in TGP they only came to make sure the weapons didn't fall into Rutan tentacles and never intended to use them. Any thoughts? 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 11:28, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure the Sontarans could and would find other enemies. They seem quite good at provoking hostile reactions. --89.241.75.207^{talk to me} 17:25, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

What puzzles the Hell out of me is what actually started the war. Discrimination between two obviously different races probably comes into it, but I'd expect the Sontarans to go to war with an enemy that posed a real threat, like the Cybermen, who want to take over the universe, not a bunch of green jellyfish. 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 17:54, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Well based on the fact that the Sontaran-Rutan War has been going on for practically forever with no sign of ending, I would say that both sides seem pretty evenly matched. Who knows how the war started anymore? I doubt that the Sontarans and Rutans even know what they're fighting about at this point. For all we know, the Sontarans only became the cloned war-based race they are today because they've been fighting the Rutans for so long. Or maybe before the Rutan war, they tried to earn honor and die in combat by attacking every planet they found, but the Rutans fought back a bit more than they expected. Anyway, I'm sure the Sontarans would be more than happy to finish the Rutans off if given the chance. I'm not sure exactly how the Sontaran's system of honor works, but I should imagine that there is more honor in killing your enemies and winning a war than there is in dying in battle. If they were ever to defeat the Rutans, then I have no doubt that they would find a new enemy to fight in no time.Icecreamdif ^{talk to me} 20:56, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Which leaves only one question: which race is the most likely candidate for them to go to war against, if they ever annhilate the Rutan Host? 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 21:53, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

The Daleks are probably the only race that enjoys war even more than the Sontarans do, but the Sontarans would probably rather fight against an enemy that they actually have a chance of killing. The universe is a very large place, filled with countless species of which we've only seen a tiny fraction of. It probably doesn't matter anyway, because it doesn't look like the Sontaran-Rutan war will end any time soon.Icecreamdif ^{talk to me} 23:35, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

As Sarah Jane told Kaagh in 2008 (SJA: The Last Sontaran), the Sontaran-Rutan War will still be going in 10,000 years. She was (I think) referring to The Sontaran Experiment, and there was no sign then that the war was nearing its end. Finding a new enemy doesn't seem like a matter of urgency, right now. --89.242.67.48^{talk to me} 00:42, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Bear in mind that in TGP the Rutans managed to create two deadly weapons that would have stopped the war at the push of a button. If they can create a weapon like that once, they can certainly create another one. 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 10:47, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

And you say this because of your detailed knowledge of the physics,manufacturing capability, intergalactic politicals and strategic and tactical state of the war at that moment?

There is a tide in the affairs of men. Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; Omitted, all the voyage of their life Is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat, And we must take the current when it serves, Or lose our ventures.Boblipton ^{talk to me} 12:41, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well on the wiki, it says that the Rutan Host reproduce by binary fission. This creates two Rutans at once. I reckon the fact that two weapons have been produced in TGP when realistically they only need one suggests some similar manufacture happened here, and that the weapon could be more biological than technological. That could mean they are still diffocult to produce, but I doubt the Rutans will have given up on the idea of creating another couple of doomsday weapons since then. 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 12:51, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

And perhaps the Sontarans figured out how to block or stop the doomsday weapon about 1650. Perhaps it was not as overwhelming a device as believed. Perhaps it was all a bluff. Far too much disputation on this wiki seems to araise out of the statement "I cannot instantly understand in full and complete detail how this situation arises on first noticing it. Therefore it is nonsense!" I prefer to look at the situation and derive explanations from it. Or sometimes I prefer to shrug and ignore the matter entirely. I have some issues with the details of th Whoniverse, the same as anyone here. Sometimes the storytelling overreaches itself. Not infrequently, in an ill advised attempt to increase tension, we see the threats escalated to a full planet, a full race, the universe. Ah, the universe is doomed. Again. Those, however, are errors in story-telling, not in matters of sacred texts or morality. I enjoy the show, I spend a lot of time on it. I also do other things. If this seems terribly important to you, maybe you should go volunteer work on a campaign or go to a highway and pick up litter. Boblipton ^{talk to me} 13:23, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Believe it or not, coincidentally I actually do volunteering work and today I helped pick up litter. But what it even has to do in the slightest with a fictional millenia long intergalactic war, I have no idea. 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 15:52, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

I applaud your community action. It shows that you have other causes, some of which are definitely more socially useful and which also have a positive result, albeit temporarily. Boblipton ^{talk to me} 20:35, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Just about everything is temporary, if you take the long view. Even the universe won't last forever. While it lasts, it's a good idea not to let ourselves be buried in litter. --2.101.62.55^{talk to me} 20:50, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

And yet here we are. Boblipton ^{talk to me} 20:53, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Temporarily. --2.101.62.55^{talk to me} 21:03, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Uhh, forgive me for asking, but what does this have to do with anything?Icecreamdif ^{talk to me} 04:16, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Forgiven and nothing, respectively. --89.241.77.143^{talk to me} 05:43, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

So are we going back to the discussion now, or do we still have a load of random unrelated stuff to go on about? 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 16:39, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Good manners and concern for other people are never irrelevant and should not be random. Boblipton ^{talk to me} 21:38, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I can't do a pukka English accent (especially not in typing), so you'll have to use your imagination: Hear, hear. Well said, sir! --89.241.73.161^{talk to me} 03:02, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, in that case, are we going back to the discussion now, or do we still have lots of relevant and unrandom stuff to go on about? 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 16:26, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I urge you to feel free to take this discussion in any direction that you think will not bore the audience. Boblipton ^{talk to me} 17:43, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well, this convesation seems to be drifting away from Doctor Who in general. Probably because there's not much to say once its been established that the Sontarans would be perfectly willing to kill the Rutans. Icecreamdif ^{talk to me} 21:29, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think you might have a point, there. --2.101.54.163^{talk to me} 21:55, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

The discussion is about the end of TGP as much as anything, and I thought it was going well until it was turned into a cnversation not just irrelevant to the war but to the Whoniverse as a whole. However it seems intrest in the discussion has died. Shame. 87.102.117.106^{talk to me} 23:20, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Anyone interested in the Sontaran/Rutan war may like to see this discussion I created on Doctor Who Answers wiki a while ago: http://drwho.answers.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Rutans_vs_Sontarans:_who_will_win%3F Anyway, I believe the Doctor once said that his money is on the Rutans winning the war, and this could be because he KNOWS they will one day win the war, or come close to it, anyway. If I'm wrong then I'm sure the Sontarans would find a new enemy, most likely the Cybermen, because it would be a pretty evenly matched war. 94.72.237.220^{talk to me} 17:30, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

If they wanted to wage war on the Cybermen, they wouldn't bother waiting for the end of their war with the Rutans. As somene mentioned on the Watercooler discussion in the link, the Sontarans have been known to get too cocky and take on multiple enemies at once. But I agree that they are the Cybermen are the most next most likely enemy for them to make, because "A Good Man Goes To War" showed us how powerful they have become. The Sontarans will most likely see this as a threat, and I'd be surprised if they haven't yet considered a war with them. 87.102.94.3^{talk to me} 15:23, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

There are plenty of powerful races in the Whoniverse, most of whom we haven't even seen. Even the Rutans have only ever made one appearance. Maybe the Sontarans would go to war with the Cybermen, or maybe they would choose another race who we haven't heard of. It doesn't really matter much anyway, because the war with the Rutans shows no sign of ending.Icecreamdif ^{talk to me} 18:50, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

To repeat what 87 and someone else on the Watercooler discussion have already stated: the Sontarans are a cocky race. They are notorious for starting multiple wars at once. I believe they even once took on the Time Lords. So if the Cybermen or any other race show up, the Sontarans will go to war with them even if they are already taking on the Rutans. 94.72.237.220^{talk to me} 22:13, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

The Cybermen have been around for a long time, and the Sontarans have never tried to take them on as far as we know. We don't even know if the two species have even ever tried to make a claim to the same part of space. The Sontarans might try to go to war with the Cybermen some day, but there is no reason to believe that they would other than that they like war and the Cybermen have guns. Besides, they never really intended on going to war with Gallifrey. Once they got the Doctor to take down the transduction barrier, they only had to send one ship to conquer the planet.Icecreamdif ^{talk to me} 23:19, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

The reasons that the Cybermen are the most likely candidates for enemies follow: 1. As shown in AGMGTW, the Cybermen now have powerful fleets that monitor the whole universe. The Doctor might have destroyed one, but presumably there are many more. The Sontarans would most likely interpret this as an attempt to upstage them. 2. The Sontarans don't fear being killed - but being demoralised and cyber-converted to them would be a terrible fate. Since the Cybermen most likely try to upgrade all living things, the Sontarans would be horrified at the prospect of turning into something that doesn't just not take joy in war, but doesn't take joy in anything at all. 94.72.237.220^{talk to me} 23:49, January 21, 2012 (UTC)